jews and jesus

[quixotic]

In “We Jews and Jesus” Rabbi Samuel Sandmel makes this statement. “Cannot Christians come to some clarity on one issue: If the death of Jesus was the universal benefit they
hold it to be, then why attach blame, whether on the Jews or on the Romans, for causing the benefit? If, as the Gospels, especially John, suppose that Jesus knew and predicted long in advance that the particular events would happen, and the events were neither a surprise nor a defeat, then were not the events merely working out some antecedently arrived at divine shcedule? If it was part of a divine schedule, then why
blame mere men for acting out the preordained human role?”

i dont ever remember us blaming the Jews or anyone else when to the death and passion of our Lord. am I missing out on something???

help…
thanks

 

[jailbelle]

I do not blame the Jews. Jesus and all his friends or at least most of his closest friends were Jewish.

 

[mangy_dog]

In “We Jews and Jesus” Rabbi Samuel Sandmel makes this statement. “Cannot Christians come to some clarity on one issue: If the death of Jesus was the universal benefit they
hold it to be, then why attach blame, whether on the Jews or on the Romans, for causing the benefit? If, as the Gospels, especially John, suppose that Jesus knew and predicted long in advance that the particular events would happen, and the events were neither a surprise nor a defeat, then were not the events merely working out some antecedently arrived at divine shcedule? If it was part of a divine schedule, then why
blame mere men for acting out the preordained human role?”

i dont ever remember us blaming the Jews or anyone else when to the death and passion of our Lord. am I missing out on something???

help…
thanks

All of humanity is to blame for Christ’s death on the cross. Not just a small pocket of jewish priests and politicians. You and I and everyone is still crucifying Christ! Every time we sin we hold the hammer; every time we sin we drive the nails, every time we sin we lance His side. Why is everybody getting wrapped around the axle over historical semantics? You wanna’ know who crucified Jesus?..I did - and I still (reluctantly) do. “Father forgive them, for they know not what they do”. That’s every christian, muslim, jew, atheist et al. The usual suspects…us.
Thank God for the renewable sacrament of penance.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[andzy]

i dont ever remember us blaming the Jews or anyone else when to the death and passion of our Lord. am I missing out on something???

For quite some time Christians (not just Catholics) of all circles have blamed Jews for Jesus’ death (I’d say it was probably just an excuse for the most part, though).
Regarding the Rabbi’s argument: if I killed Hitler in 1936, I’d still be held accountable for his murder. Though a murder on one hand might seem to us (or even be) a good thing, on the other hand it’s still a crime and sin (especially killing God Incarnate). Of course, Jews or Romans in general cannot be blamed for this (at least no more than any of us).

 

[deb1]

Jewish people have undergone such horrible prejudice against them, not just during the Holocaust, but during much of history.

The Rabbi is making a mistake by wording his statement to make it sound as if ALL Christians hold Jewish people responsible for Jesus’ death. This isn’t true.

 

[FightingFat]

I thought part of the crucifixion was that we all did it if you like-- Jews, Gentiles and Christians (the twelve).

 

[quixotic]

thats what i thought… that He died for my sins…
i was taught that God cannot suffer and Gd cannot die,
so God sent his only Son, Jesus, to suffer and die for us
the people that brought him to death was instrument of God.
i have never thought of blaming anyone for His death…
He died a willing death… with tons if pain…
but it is very disturbing to read what the Rabbi said

 

[mangy_dog]

Jewish people have undergone such horrible prejudice against them, not just during the Holocaust, but during much of history.

The Rabbi is making a mistake by wording his statement to make it sound as if ALL Christians hold Jewish people responsible for Jesus’ death. This isn’t true.

There will come a day in the not so distant future when the “veil” will be lifted and the Jews will recognize the Messiah in Jesus Christ. And they will mourn Him as with a first born. They will recognize the Messiah, the one they (we) pierced.
The Rabbi’s statements are misplaced and displaced because of the impending and inevitable revelation of being confronted with the Messiah and finding that the Messiah has been Jesus all along. It is gnawing at the back of their collective consciences, the possibility that they’ve been wrong about Jesus for over 2000 years. And so, christians are tongue lashed for “implying” that the Jews are to “blame” for the crucifixion of Jesus. It’s the wounded duck syndrome. …sorry.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[BlestOne]

OK… not that I haven’t thought how stupid it is to place blame for Jesus’s death too… but come on the apostles blamed the jews guys…

13 The God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus, whom you indeed delivered up and denied before the face of Pilate, when he judged he should be released. 14 But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you. 15 But the author of life you killed, whom God hath raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses.

(Pilate says)
16 I will chastise him therefore, and release him. 17 Now of necessity he was to release unto them one upon the feast day. 18 But the whole multitude together cried out, saying: Away with this man, and release unto us Barabbas: 19 Who, for a certain sedition made in the city, and for a murder, was cast into prison. 20 And Pilate again spoke to them, desiring to release Jesus.
21 But they cried again, saying: Crucify him, crucify him. 22 And he said to them the third time: Why, what evil hath this man done? I find no cause of death in him. I will chastise him therefore, and let him go. 23 But they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified; and their voices prevailed. 24 And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required. 25 And he released unto them him who for murder and sedition, had been cast into prison, whom they had desired; but Jesus he delivered up to their will.

 

[mangy_dog]

OK… not that I haven’t thought how stupid it is to place blame for Jesus’s death too… but come on the apostles blamed the jews guys…

Of course they did! The Holy Spirit had not yet come down over them to open their minds and souls to the deeper and universally super-abundant meaning of Christ’s crucifixion. Their sins, your sins, my sins - we crucified Him and still (reluctantly) do.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[mlchance]

OK… not that I haven’t thought how stupid it is to place blame for Jesus’s death too… but come on the apostles blamed the jews guys…

Yes and no. The Gospels clearly blame the Jews who were complicit in Jesus’ death, but the Gospels do not blame the Jewish people as a whole for that death. A failure to make a clear distinction doesn’t make the resulting fuzzy generalization into a fact.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[BlestOne]

Yes and no. The Gospels clearly blame the Jews who were complicit in Jesus’ death, but the Gospels do not blame the Jewish people as a whole for that death. A failure to make a clear distinction doesn’t make the resulting fuzzy generalization into a fact.

– Mark L. Chance.

Mark, You are correct… The Acts quote I gave was Peter talking to the Pharisee and Sadducee’s leaders at the Temple… Absolutely not the Jewish people as a whole!

 

[quixotic]

thats very true…
do you think it would be a different scenario is the people didnt asked for Barnabas??

i just seems to me that this was meant to happen - it was for told.

its so confusing… aarrggg…