Jews and the Trinity

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In the OT did the Jews teach and believe in the Trinity or a Triune God ?
 
So a question, do the Jewish faiths see God as Father and Holy Spirit? or just God the Father?
 
wmscott said:
So a question, do the Jewish faiths see God as Father and Holy Spirit? or just God the Father?
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I would say God as YHVH, or any other Scriptural name you might want to use, but God as God. And of course we see the breath of God in Ruach.

I would hardly say Jews believe in dual God, as opposed to triune.
 
The Trinity is strictly a Christian teaching. In fact, the Trinity and the Incarnation (how can the Divinity become a HUMAN BEING with a BODY!!!) are the two great stumbling blocks and choking points of Christianity.

ICXC NIKA
 
horselvr said:
In the OT did the Jews teach and believe in the Trinity or a Triune God ?
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I’ve asked Jews this question Re:Genesis 1:26

“Then God said, “Let us make man in ***our ***image, after ***our ***likeness;…”

My question to them was, Who is US? and who is “OUR” in Genesis 1:26?

I really didn’t get an answer. They project it’s angels. To which I said angels are messengers NOT creators anybody
 
horselvr said:
In the OT did the Jews teach and believe in the Trinity or a Triune God ?
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It’s kind of complicated… the general understanding would be no.

Yet, when we read Sacred Scriptures we find that there are practices that are not clearly seen through Sacred Writings but that are still practiced through Judaism’s understanding of God.

For instance, we find the frequent reference to the Patriarchs, Abraham almost always being singled out; yet, we find no text that supports this relationship in the life of the worshipers.

Still, it is so important in the lives of the Jews that both St. John the Baptist and Jesus make notable references to him:
7 John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. (St. Luke 3:7-8)
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54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (St. John 8:54-46)
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This practice was clearly common since even those at the fringes of Judaic practices would acknowledge its use:
9 The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.) 10 Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.” 11 “Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?” (St. John 4:9-12)
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We also know from Scriptures that Yahweh God promised that even though Israel rejected Him He would keep a Remnant for Himself… it is this Remnant from which the prophets are chosen as are those who God elects (Mary, Joseph, Elizabeth, Zechariah, Simeon, Anna, the shepherds…) to receive private Revelations/Instructions; to these a greater portion of Revelation is given…

Hidden in plain sight in the Annunciation and the Visit, as in other passages of Sacred Scriptures, we find that the Holy Trinity is Revealed:
26 And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29 Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be. 30 And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God. 31 Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever. 33 And of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man? 35 And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. (St. Luke 1:26-32)
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So, while it is not explicitly stated, those who are part of the Remnant, who are awaiting the Messiah, are made known, through the Holy Spirit, greater Revelations than the rest of Israel.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
The Jewish faith, like ours, refers to God as the Father (though there is a distinction: God as a Father, and God as the Father). They also recognize that the Tetragrammaton is God’s name! Jews and Samaritans alike do this.

So therefore, it should follow that the Jews and Samaritans worship God the Father, but not the Son and the Spirit. But they worship the same God, who inspired Scripture and revealed His covenant with Israel.

However, other Abrahamic religions (save for Rastafari, which is a distinct and random concept here) not included do not recognize God as the Tetragrammaton and do not see Him in the same way… they cannot worship the same God.

God would always reveal His Name, and He is known to have done this to the Jews (and, through them, also to Christians and Samaritans).
 
horselvr said:
In the OT did the Jews teach and believe in the Trinity or a Triune God ?
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No, it should also be borne in mind that one should be careful in using terms like ‘Father’ in case one ‘anthropomorphizes’ God which would be idolatry.
 
GEddie said:
The Trinity is strictly a Christian teaching. In fact, the Trinity and the Incarnation (how can the Divinity become a HUMAN BEING with a BODY!!!) are the two great stumbling blocks and choking points of Christianity.

ICXC NIKA
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Trinity is not only strict Christian, because in Gaudiya Vaishanism the Godhead also concedes of 3 persons as unity:
  1. Krishna Bhagavan Hari (ELI) TRANSCENDENT ORIGIN ‘FATHER’
  2. Baladeva VASUDEVA VISHNU (YAHU-TOBA) INTER-MEDIATE AND MEDIATING ‘SON’
  3. PARAMATMAN (ADON-YAHU) IMMANENT ‘HOLY SPIRIT’
See also:
bhaktianandascollectedworks.wordpress.com/2010/11/07/the-most-holy-trinitytrikayavishnos-tu-trini-rupani/#more-152
 
I’ve recently become a member of a Jewish forum and it seems like I read a post about the trinity that a Christian had started asking if Jews believed in it and the response at least from one of the folks was that no, Jews do not believe in the trinity and view it as idol worship since they have only one god and no other persons etc… If I’m wrong please accept my sincere apologies.
 
Kaninchen said:
No, it should also be borne in mind that one should be careful in using terms like ‘Father’ in case one ***‘anthropomorphizes’ ***God which would be idolatry.
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Then, could you please answer this question? #6

Thanks in advance
 
steve_b said:
Then, could you please answer this question? #6

Thanks in advance
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I’m not going to indulge in a Christian ‘proof text’ discussion other than to say that when one brandishes 1.26 one should not forget 1.27.
 
It should be obvious to anyone that the Trinity is not even explicitly defined in the New Testament much less the Old Testament.

The Trinity was revealed by Jesus Christ Himself. No man could make this up on his own, as it is just too much for the human mind to comprehend.

However, to a believer, the shadows of the Trinity can be found scattered about in the Old Testament.
 
Kaninchen said:
I’m not going to indulge in a Christian ‘proof text’ discussion other than to say that when one brandishes 1.26 one should not forget 1.27.
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Proof text?😉 Does that mean you have no answer from a Jewish perspective? Surely you must have an answer. No one has ever asked that question in the Jewish community on Gen 1:26?

Re:Gen 1:17
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Remember, I was responding to your post
Originally Posted by Kaninchen forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
*No, it should also be borne in mind that one should be careful in using terms like ‘Father’ in case one ***‘anthropomorphizes’ ****God which would be idolatry.
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anthropomorphize = to attribute human form or personality to things not human

All I’m asking is for you a Jew, to explain from a Jewish perspective
 
steve_b said:
Proof text?😉 Does that mean you have no answer from a Jewish perspective? Surely you must have an answer. No one has ever asked that question in the Jewish community on Gen 1:26?

Re:Gen 1:17
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Remember, I was responding to your post
anthropomorphize = to attribute human form or personality to things not human

All I’m asking is for you a Jew, to explain from a Jewish perspective
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Well, I think you’ll have to wait for CAF to recruit some new Jews who might not be tired of this sort of stuff and this sort of approach.
 
ralphwilms said:
Trinity is not only strict Christian, because in Gaudiya Vaishanism the Godhead also concedes of 3 persons as unity:
  1. Krishna Bhagavan Hari (ELI) TRANSCENDENT ORIGIN ‘FATHER’
  2. Baladeva VASUDEVA VISHNU (YAHU-TOBA) INTER-MEDIATE AND MEDIATING ‘SON’
  3. PARAMATMAN (ADON-YAHU) IMMANENT ‘HOLY SPIRIT’
See also:
bhaktianandascollectedworks.wordpress.com/2010/11/07/the-most-holy-trinitytrikayavishnos-tu-trini-rupani/#more-152
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Hi!
You’ve misunderstood the post–Judaism does not recognize the Triune God which Christianity professes: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Christians may be knowledgeable of other religious permutations of the term “trinity,” but we only recognize as God the Holy Trinity Revealed in Sacred Scriptures.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Kaninchen:

So it seems the OT Jews do not believe or embrace the Holy Trinity. Would I be correct in saying the OT hints at the HT or would that not be true. Also, would the new Jews of today do they believe. in the HT.
 
pitbull:
thank you for the vids. I have been able to watch the first half of the first video and tonight I will be able to sit and watch the last half. I find this subject of the Jews and the Trinity so interesting and have gotten many different answers. I might need a Rabbi or two. An old Rabbi and a young Rabbi. LOL
 
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