Jews are okay by not considering Jesus as the Messiah or G_d because...

[Isa_Almisry]

But to a devout Hindu, you are a heretical as your faith came later.

Hinduism is much older than your Christianity.

How so, since it is the Faith that founded the universe?

Besides you worship three-in-one god whereas Hindus worship millions-in-one Bagwan (god).

Oh, btw, who’s the Us of Genesis 1:26.

It’s quality, not quantity. We only need the One True God.

So these Hindus, from line of your Christian argument, are believers in a more powerfull god than your just three-in-one god . You god is limited to mere three shapes or forms only. Whereas Hindu god can be seen in almost every form shape. And amazingly, they too believe in not just incarnation but incarnations.

And so you reveal that you know nothing about Hinduism nor Christianity, and I’m doubting Judaism.

Hindus think the body is maya, illusion, so reincarnation or incarnation is not much an important thing (I don’t think its consistent, but I’m not apologizing for Hinduism). The multiple gods don’t really exist because only Brahma exists, so your comparison with the Most Holy Trinity makes no sense.

and given the prevelance of some ideas about all the souls of Jews being at Sinai, prexistence/eternal exsitence of the Torah, the shekhinah etc. I’d tread more carefully.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Christianity is merely an extension to Judaism. They should not really have a different title but since most Jews rejected the Messiah, a distinction had to be made. As being, Hinduism is not older than Christianity and we trace our religion down to Genesis, the beginning of the world. Before God created the world, Hinduism did not exist - I assure you. And your incorrect, Hindus do not worship millions in one god, they are polytheistic and believe in multiple - often times conflicting gods. Their gods are not one, but many. And for you to deny that the all-powerful God is incapable of coming to use in a different form is heretical on your belief. In Genesis it says God was walking, God came to Moses in a burning bush, etc. God has come to your and my prophets in multiple forms.

Actually no, Judaism, founded on the Talmud postdates the Church. And there is a real question, as I showed on the posted links above, whether the majority of Hebrews rejected the Messiah.

 

[inJESUS]

But most certainly they ar better than your Councils, because they are atleast not twisitng the words/meaning of our Holy Torah.

why blame us? blame your brethren who had different interpretations because of what they saw with their own eyes

 

[Isa_Almisry]

You can make images or icons for other reasons but most certainly not of an almost naked man (with barely a cloth on his private parts) for hanging right in the Churches and take your children (boys and girls) there to show them how your “god” looks like and how badly he was murdered/killed for no crime committed …obviously a picture is worth thousand words and an idol should be morethan thousand words…now the young innocent Christian minds would ask next question, why and who killed our such an innocent and helpless Christian god mercylessly? You will tell them “Jews of his time killed him”.

Would you prefer to walk naked in public with a cloth on your private parts, just like how you depict your holy “god” in pictures and idols in your Chruches?

We prefer truth, and the Truth was that the Lord hung naked on the Cross. Even the loin cloth is a concession, to modesty.

You seem to have a real hangup on nudity.

I point out to my sons that the Christ is on the Cross with His arms outstretched so that He can give them, and everyone, a hug: a major theme of the Fathers, as Christ said Himself (John 12:32).

I have heard often enough the emphasis of Kol Nidre being only vows to God, not to people. Release comes from above, not below.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Quantity is a lack of omnipotence? So three forms of your “god” too must be a lack of omnipotence then? S you are worshipping a god who is lesser in his omnipotence.

Thanks G_d that Holy Torah and the Prophets did not teach what you think is a lack of omnipotence, thus G_d of Isreal is the most POWERFULL G_D.

A shame the Masoretic Tanakh doesn’t, because the Pentateuch, Prophets and Writings of Ancient Israel does.

 

[inJESUS]

Oh, btw, who’s the Us of Genesis 1:26.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Judaism and Christianuity are two different faiths.

Not totally. Judaism is derived from the Christian Faith.

The first Judaism leads to G_d who is REAL G_D of Israel and all.

You’ve mixed up the order here, as the Talmud of Judaism postdates the Bible (including NT) of the Church.

Funny we have had lots of Jews claiming that Judaism doesn’t proselytize. How’s it do that leading to G-d?

The other (Christianity) takes you to worshipping of an idea alien to the Holy torah

Alien to the Torah, perhaps. But it is the teaching of the Pentateuch, which predates your Masoretic Torah.

and the Prophets.

The Prophets preached Christ.

It is anti-Judaism.

in that it says Judaism got it wrong, yes.

That is why so many Jews were murdered and kicked out from their homes and their belongings and properties were stolen by Christians when Church had upper hand.

And the Jews were doing what when the Church didn’t have the upper hand. Consult Acts.

As to Christian Messiah, again For Jews, Jesus was not a prophet and he did not fulfill the Messianoc prophecies.

which you rewrote and reformulated after the rise of the Church. The majority of Hebrews, it seems, had already converted to the Church, as the linked threads have discussed.

To be a Messiah, he should gather all Jews

The Hebrews were gathered in Jerusalem in His day.

back to the Land of Israel, build the Third Temple

The Temple stood in His day, and He raised up the True Temple on the Third Day.

, bring peace, end oppression, spread wide knowledge of the G_d of Israel etc.

The Church has gone out to the ends of the earth.

Which one of these Jesus fulfilled? NONE.

ALL.

So you are preaching a fraud

What are you preaching? A good part of all those commandments can’t be fulfilled because Judaism’s Temple doesnt’ exist.

and false thing from Holy Torah perspective by twisting it.

We only teach what the Pentateuch says.

This book was not for you.

The Masoretic Torah, no. It was an alteration from the Pentateuch, to seperate the Jews from the Church.

It was and is for Jews and Jews only have to expalin it to the whole gentile world.

The OT was and is for the Hebrews to give to the whole world, which we have done. Judaism created the Masoretic text as an ethnocentric book.

Then why you Christains talk BAD about other religion or religions when Christians themseleves are guilty of preaching fraud and misconception which is BAD in other peoples eye?

For example of how Christians talk, take a look at this very forum how they mock Jews, moslems and even Hindus.

The only mocking of Hindus I have seen has been from you.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

This is nonsense. Because G_d of Israel is ONE. period !

There never was any basis for Trinity in Judaism.

And I will ask again, Who is the Us and Our in Genesis 1:26?

In the words of Moses Nachmanides who once said in a debate, "for believing in the divinity of the Messiah or, indeed, of any man. … it seemed most strange "that the Creator of heaven and earth resorted to the womb of a certain Jewess and grew there for nine months and was born as an infant, and afterwards grew up and was betrayed into the hands of his enemies who sentenced him to death and executed him, and that afterwards… he came to life and returned to his original place. The mind of a Jew, or any other person, cannot tolerate this."

The fact this is the prevailing Faith in the world, and has been from some time, and which defeated the Roman Empire that Bar Kokhba and the Jews of the Jewish-Roman Wars could not, etc. prima facie shows that Moses Nachmanides was wrong. And since he said, of the writers of the Talmud “We bow before them, and even when the reason for their words is not quite evident to us, we submit to them” he should have watched himself better.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Guarded in order to twist it’s meaning…right?

No. The Mishnah did that, though it got it right in other parts.

In the libraries and museums of non-Christian world too, the Holy Torah and Jewish literature is guarded and kept for decades or centuries. What does this prove to you? Are they to be taken above Holy Torah simply because they are guarding these Holy Books?

The oldest Masoretic text dates around 900. The Masorites didn’t start redacting until a few centuries earlier. The Pentateuch had already been written, along with most of the rest of the OT before the day of Pentacost. The Dead Sea Scrolls, and other Fragments agree with the LXX against the Masoretic text. The Masoretic text is not the older, and has no primacy, neither historically nor religiously (except for those who created it).

But most certainly they ar better than your Councils, because they are atleast not twisitng the words/meaning of our Holy Torah.

Yes, atheist museums who don’t believe in G-d’s existence. Much better.
We had the Pentateuch. We have no use for your Torah.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

But those “Fathers” are your Fathers not my fathers.

That’s your problem.

And what about Father Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

I cannot call your fathers as my father. I have only ONE human father. And my G-_D is not a man.

Judaism is passed, according to Judaism, through the mother. So your father has nothing to do with it.

If your G-d is the One True G-d, the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, then He appeared in a visage of the Trinity to Abraham at Mamre, His Crucifixion prefigured by Isaac carrying the wood to the mount of sacrifice, and wresteled with Jacob, and was born of their seed as the Messiah. So, your G-D has become man, or you have another G-d.

The wisdom of your fathers is meant for people like you who accept them as their fathers.

Those wise anough to accept them as their fathers.

Why should a Jew or a Moslem or a Hindu or Buddhist accept your fathers’ so called wisdom by going againts his own real ONE father’s wisdom?

So He would know the Way, the Truth and the Life.

They all have their own wisdoms alongwith their Holy Books.

So, for instance you like what the Quran says about the Jews and your Torah?

Why you are enforcing/imposing your fathers’ wisdom on others and asking them to reject their own fathers’ wisdom?

I haven’t enforced/imposed anything anything. They have been offered words of life from God the Word.

Are you not insane?

No. Are you?

 

[Robbinson]

I cannot call your fathers as my father. I have only ONE human father. And my G-_D is not a man.

Hi Aaronjo:

I am a Jew who has come to believe in Christ as the Messiah. While I consider myself a Christian - I still consider myself a Jew (as did all of the most early Christians as the Christianity actually started as a sect of Judaism). You need not agree with me on that very signficant conclusion, of course, and I can respect that, but you have made a number of bold statements about Judaism and aspects of Christianity which you say are inconsistent with Judaism which are incorrect.

Yes - man can not become a God - but certainly God can become a man. Do you really think there is anything God can’t do? Throughout the old testatment there are passages suggesting God appeared to us in human form. Recall Abraham meeting with the Angels on the way to Sodom, but then we are told one of the speakers is the Lord. How about when Jacob wrestled with God and had his named changed to Israel.

Re: there is “one God” - actually the hebrew word used is Echad. The proper translation of this term in Hebrew is not the number 1 but a unity. Further, the Old testament talks about God in plurality (but we know He is one - so must be a unity) when in Genesis he talks about making man in “our image” and there are numerous references to God’s spirit hovering over the waters.

As to the Messiah - it is the Jewish scriptures which tell us when he was to come (the book of Daniel being most relevant). Even the great rabbis of Jesus time acknowledged the exepectation that the Messiah was coming at his time and they bewaled his “not coming” without explanation. Was Daniel a false prophet. Also, the Jewish scriptures themselves tell us that when the Messiah does come - he will be rejected by his own people who will have eyes but not see and ears but not hear - and then He will be sent to become a light to the Gentile nations. Sound familiar? And that he would suffer for our sins and die, but return to see his seed (resurrection) - sound familiar?

Again - you need not agree - but there is a great deal “Jewish” about Christianity indeed.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[inJESUS]

Aaronjo will understand nothing from your indepth arguments…he is Muslim…he won’t be able to grasp most of what you say…refrain from bombarding him with reason and proof.

 

[Angelos]

Hi Aaronjo:

I am a Jew who has come to believe in Christ as the Messiah. While I consider myself a Christian - I still consider myself a Jew (as did all of the most early Christians as the Christianity actually started as a sect of Judaism). You need not agree with me on that very signficant conclusion, of course, and I can respect that, but you have made a number of bold statements about Judaism and aspects of Christianity which you say are inconsistent with Judaism which are incorrect.

Yes - man can not become a God - but certainly God can become a man. Do you really think there is anything God can’t do? Throughout the old testatment there are passages suggesting God appeared to us in human form. Recall Abraham meeting with the Angels on the way to Sodom, but then we are told one of the speakers is the Lord. How about when Jacob wrestled with God and had his named changed to Israel.

Re: there is “one God” - actually the hebrew word used is Echad. The proper translation of this term in Hebrew is not the number 1 but a unity. Further, the Old testament talks about God in plurality (but we know He is one - so must be a unity) when in Genesis he talks about making man in “our image” and there are numerous references to God’s spirit hovering over the waters.

As to the Messiah - it is the Jewish scriptures which tell us when he was to come (the book of Daniel being most relevant). Even the great rabbis of Jesus time acknowledged the exepectation that the Messiah was coming at his time and they bewaled his “not coming” without explanation. Was Daniel a false prophet. Also, the Jewish scriptures themselves tell us that when the Messiah does come - he will be rejected by his own people who will have eyes but not see and ears but not hear - and then He will be sent to become a light to the Gentile nations. Sound familiar? And that he would suffer for our sins and die, but return to see his seed (resurrection) - sound familiar?

Again - you need not agree - but there is a great deal “Jewish” about Christianity indeed.

Blessings,

Brian

I should remind u that Aaronjo is not a Jew, but a Muslim! He only pretends to be a Jew since he has been banned here many times.

He has just confessed his true identity on another thread named “Islam is Bad”. Go and read please

 

[inJESUS]

The arguments presented by the OP make me think he is not a Jew…

see i can be a prophet i knew it instantly…

what can i do? God-given ability to discern truth from falsehood

 

[Angelos]

see i can be a prophet i knew it instantly…

what can i do? God-given ability to discern truth from falsehood

You were quicker than I was. You are a better prophet.

I hope Raul will not pretend to be a JW or a Mormon next time. That guy never gives up no matter how many times he is banned here.

 

[inJESUS]

You were quicker than I was. You are a better prophet.

I hope Raul will not pretend to be a JW or a Mormon next time. That guy never gives up no matter how many times he is banned here.

mmmm…Mormonism and Islam , 2 angels visiting Muhammad and Smith, different gospels, heresies, “feel the truth of the book”, “corruption”, “God only preserved our book”…uch:

 

[Isa_Almisry]

mmmm…Mormonism and Islam , 2 angels visiting Muhammad and Smith, different gospels, heresies, “feel the truth of the book”, “corruption”, “God only preserved our book”…uch:

you left out plural marriage, flight from persecusion to found one’s one theocratic state.

 

[aaronjo]

Oh, btw, who’s the Us of Genesis 1:26.

.

Us is plural of respect. Not three-in-one non-existant god.

 

[Angelos]

Us is plural of respect. Not three-in-one non-existant god.

The use of plural form (us instead of me) for respect was alien to the writer of Genesis. Do you naively believe that Genesis was written by an author who was familiar with this usage that occurred only in late English? LOL

 

[inJESUS]

The use of plural form (us instead of me) for respect was alien to the writer of Genesis. Do you naively believe that Genesis was written by an author who was familiar with this usage that occurred only in late English? LOL

no , he is repeating the Islamic wisdom that God uses a style technique known much late in history.