Jews, Christians, and Muslim

[TEPO]

God loves Jews, Christians and Muslims all the same… He also loves murderers, adulterers, and devil worshippers.

God loves us all, but He hates our sins… BTW, Islam is a false religion.

 

[MartinJordan]

Here is something to think about. Can they worship a God they reject?

1 john 2:22 tells us that who ever denies Jesus not only denies the Son but also denies the Father. Who ever does this is not only a liar but an anti christ.

Muslims flat out reject Jesus Christ as being the Son of God. They go so far as to say that Him dying on the cross was an illusion. The Bible clearly tells us if you reject the Son then you also reject the Father. If they reject the Son and ultimately reject the Father, how do they worship the Same God as Christians?

Just some thoughts.

The whole motive of Islam (IMO) is to simplify God. It’s not so much reject but it is nonacceptance of the persons of God plus being revisionist about the Prophets (again simplify) and what they did.

Do they love God? I’m sure they do. They profess to believe in the God of Abraham (Our Father in Faith), for that we have to charitably accept.

MJ

 

[Jim_Baur]

My point is: If the God of all three of these religions infinitely loves all people, then that should be announced to all.

If our God love all people, it should help bring peace.

 

[johnnyjones]

Here is something to think about. Can they worship a God they reject?

1 john 2:22 tells us that who ever denies Jesus not only denies the Son but also denies the Father. Who ever does this is not only a liar but an anti christ.

Muslims flat out reject Jesus Christ as being the Son of God. They go so far as to say that Him dying on the cross was an illusion. The Bible clearly tells us if you reject the Son then you also reject the Father. If they reject the Son and ultimately reject the Father, how do they worship the Same God as Christians?

Muslims do not have the fullness of the faith, that is the teaching of the church. Although they flat out deny the deity of Jesus (among many other essentials) they believe they are worshiping the Abrahamic God and have some roots in that concept. They do not have the truth of the gospel.

In my opinion your scripture verse is a quandri for the church when statements are made that we are worshiping the same God. It makes sense that we can call them an Abrahamic faith but their worship is not of the true God. As to the OP question God loves all and wishes for none to perish.

 

[R_C]

My point is: If the God of all three of these religions infinitely loves all people, then that should be announced to all. If our God love all people, it should help bring peace.

There is only one God, and He infinitely loves all people.

However, not all religions know or see with the same clarity that God infinitely loves everyone, unconditionally.

We are blessed in that Christ tells us this very openly and clearly. Which is why God gives us the commandment to be lights in the world and bring the good news to all. It’s called good news for a reason.

 

[Jim_Baur]

RC

That is the Good News!

 

[R_C]

:yup:

 

[Kristin234]

Muslims do not have the fullness of the faith, that is the teaching of the church. Although they flat out deny the deity of Jesus (among many other essentials) they believe they are worshiping the Abrahamic God and have some roots in that concept. They do not have the truth of the gospel.

In my opinion your scripture verse is a quandri for the church when statements are made that we are worshiping the same God. It makes sense that we can call them an Abrahamic faith but their worship is not of the true God. As to the OP question God loves all and wishes for none to perish.

Exactly. Key word is that they believe they are. Just because they believe they are does not mean they are actually worshiping the True God. Anyone can say they worship the same God.

They are called an Abrahamic faith because they say they are. People say they worship the same God because they say they do. According to the Bible and the verse I posted, however, they most certainly do not worship the same God.

 

[meltzerboy]

I know for sure about Jesus Christ saying:

Anyone who is Christian and acts contrary to these teachings of Christ is unworthy of being a disciple of Christ, for our God is the God of love, mercy, and charity.

I am afraid, though, that the followers of other religions can still do things that are contrary to love and still claim to be doing God’s will according to their doctrine and scriptures.

Down to the specifics: no doubt that there is only one God. However, it is how we describe and know Him that makes the difference. The God that we knew in the Old Testament did not necessarily seem to love all the people. There are nowadays quite a few who for some reason love to collect those strange quotes.

As for the teachings of Islam I am very ignorant on the topic, but I have also found others who collect similar quotes:

As my Lord has taught me, I neither judge nor condemn. I also know that God teaches all people to love. But I am afraid that the God they describe appears very different from the God that was fully revealed through Christ, the God of mercy and forgiveness, that did not come to condemn sinners but to save them at the cost of sacrificing his own life and who said of sinners and disbelievers: “forgive them, Father, for they do not know what they are doing”

I do not know of any other God that has spoken this way to his people, and I am eager to find out more.

I can’t speak for Islam, but I know that in Judaism, one CANNOT behave toward others, whether Jew or non-Jew, without love and still claim to be doing G-d’s will. Any Jew who states otherwise is either ignorant of or chooses not to practice the true teaching of Judaism. The G-d of the Jews is a G-d of love and mercy, as well as justice, for all people since He is the G-d of all. The quotations you cite from the Hebrew Bible that suggest G-d does not love the Gentile must be studied within the historical, cultural, and literary context of the Bible.

 

[meltzerboy]

Exactly. Key word is that they believe they are. Just because they believe they are does not mean they are actually worshiping the True God. Anyone can say they worship the same God.

They are called an Abrahamic faith because they say they are. People say they worship the same God because they say they do. According to the Bible and the verse I posted, however, they most certainly do not worship the same God.

I believe the Catechism of the Catholic Church disagrees with what you say.

 

[R_C]

There is a significant difference between doctrine and worship. Even Paul said to the Greeks in Athens:

I noticed among other things an altar inscribed: To An Unknown God. In fact, the unknown God you revere is the one I proclaim to you.

I believe the Catechism of the Catholic Church disagrees with what you say.

Don’t know if the Catechism directly mentions this, but here we find the following:

The position of the Pope concerning Islam is unequivocally that expressed by the conciliar document Nostra Aetate: “The Church regards with esteem also the Muslims. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, Who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting”

The latest Apostolic Exhortation, Ecclesia in Medio Oriente, also places an emphasis on this issue we are humbly discussing here:

The Catholic Church, in fidelity to the teachings of the Second Vatican Council, looks with esteem to Muslims, who worship God above all by prayer, almsgiving and fasting, revere Jesus as a prophet while not acknowledging his divinity, and honour Mary, his Virgin Mother.

We know that the encounter of Islam and Christianity has often taken the form of doctrinal controversy. Sadly, both sides have used doctrinal differences as a pretext for justifying, in the name of religion, acts of intolerance, discrimination, marginalization and even of persecution.

Jews, Christians and Muslims alike believe in one God, the Creator of all men and women.

May Jews, Christians and Muslims rediscover one of God’s desires, that of the unity and harmony of the human family. May Jews, Christians and Muslims find in other believers brothers and sisters to be respected and loved, and in this way, beginning in their own lands, give the beautiful witness of serenity and concord between the children of Abraham.

Rather than being exploited in endless conflicts which are unjustifiable for authentic believers, the acknowledgment of one God – if lived with a pure heart – can make a powerful contribution to peace in the region and to respectful coexistence on the part of its peoples.

 

[R_C]

I can’t speak for Islam, but I know that in Judaism, one CANNOT behave toward others, whether Jew or non-Jew, without love and still claim to be doing G-d’s will. Any Jew who states otherwise is either ignorant of or chooses not to practice the true teaching of Judaism. The G-d of the Jews is a G-d of love and mercy, as well as justice, for all people since He is the G-d of all. The quotations you cite from the Hebrew Bible that suggest G-d does not love the Gentile must be studied within the historical, cultural, and literary context of the Bible.

Thank you! I would never dare to question this, for as a Christian I also believe in the same G-d. I did not, of course, meant to say that He does not love the Gentile; I simply meant to say that from certain quotations of the Scriptures some people may get the wrong impression and perhaps harbor in their hearts feelings that are neither love nor mercy and still believe that they are in conformity with G-d’s will. Of course, to the majority it is obvious that this is not so, and that - as you nicely state - one cannot behave toward others without love and still claim to be doing G-d’s will.

 

[johnnyjones]

There is a significant difference between doctrine and worship. Even Paul said to the Greeks in Athens:

Don’t know if the Catechism directly mentions this, but here we find the following:

The latest Apostolic Exhortation, Ecclesia in Medio Oriente, also places an emphasis on this issue we are humbly discussing here:

What I see from the church is that Jews and Muslims believe in the one God that Christians worship. They do not have the fullness of the faith because Jesus IS God.

 

[R_C]

They do not have the fullness of the faith because Jesus IS God.

That is another topic The Church knows that salvation is truly universal, and this is succinctly mentioned in the Catechism:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him

 

[johnnyjones]

That is another topic The Church knows that salvation is truly universal, and this is succinctly mentioned in the Catechism:

Yes, that is very clear and I have always seen this part of the catechism as a refreshing answer to those who say, “what if you don’t know Christ, will you go to hell”?

However I don’t think it could be said in a blanket satement that Muslims worship the one* true* God. Judaism is different in that the God of Abraham was further revealed in the NT. Islam has added a new revelation, not supported in any way by NT scripture. With Judaism, Jesus can been seen in the OT.

I do understand the churches position as it reflects St. Pauls acclaimation to the “men of Athens” and the unknown god.

 

[Kristin234]

I believe the Catechism of the Catholic Church disagrees with what you say.

Well, I’m not Catholic, so that doesn’t bother me. Also, that’s not what I am saying. It is what God’s Word says.

The Bible, however, says that who ever rejects Jesus as the Christ not only denies the Son but also denies the Father. Can you please explain to me how one can worship that God when they reject him? The person who rejects Him is even called the antichrist and a liar.

“Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the** Father and the Son.**”

 

[johnnyjones]

Well, I’m not Catholic, so that doesn’t bother me. Also, that’s not what I am saying. It is what God’s Word says.

The Bible, however, says that who ever rejects Jesus as the Christ not only denies the Son but also denies the Father. Can you please explain to me how one can worship that God when they reject him? The person who rejects Him is even called the antichrist and a liar.

“Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the** Father and the Son.**”

Please read the post above you as that may help you see the catholic view. If your view was stringently held, all of Israel would not be saved as scripture indicates. Jews worship the one true God but lack the fullness. Islam has a new revelation which corrupts scripture but is claimed Abrahamic.

The way to reach those who have a desire for the truth is not to repel them but to do as St. Paul did. He spoke to the men of Athens and told them that they were a religious people praying to an unknown god. Then, he showed them the truth.

 

[Kristin234]

Please read the post above you as that may help you see the catholic view. If your view was stringently held, all of Israel would not be saved as scripture indicates. Jews worship the one true God but lack the fullness. Islam has a new revelation which corrupts scripture but is claimed Abrahamic.

The way to reach those who have a desire for the truth is not to repel them but to do as St. Paul did. He spoke to the men of Athens and told them that they were a religious people praying to an unknown god. Then, he showed them the truth.

So then please explain to me how one can still worship the True God when the Bible says those who reject Jesus Christ not only deny the Son but** also the Father**? If you deny God you do not worship Him. Plain and simple.

These are not my words but God’s.

It’s not just because I believe Jesus Christ is God and they do not, but once again, the Bible it self says if you reject Jesus you are denying God as a whole.

Just like how
Atheists do not worship the same God as Christians because they reject Him
Hindus do not worship the same God as Christians because they reject Him
Muslims also do not worship the same God because they also not only reject the Son but also the Father…according to the Bible.

I am not repelling anyone. However, I am not going to say they worship the same God as me when I do not believe they do.

By the way, those Jews before Jesus Christ did worship the one true God, I am not denying that. The Jews now, they are supposed to believe in Jesus Christ for He is God. The Messiah has come and they are supposed to believe that. Which is why in the Bible it says to go preach the Gospel to the Jew first. They need to be saved also and they also need faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[johnnyjones]

So then please explain to me how one can still worship the True God when the Bible says those who reject Jesus Christ not only deny the Son but** also the Father**? If you deny God you do not worship Him. Plain and simple.

These are not my words but God’s.

It’s not just because I believe Jesus Christ is God and they do not, but once again, the Bible it self says if you reject Jesus you are denying God as a whole.

Just like how
Atheists do not worship the same God as Christians because they reject Him
Hindus do not worship the same God as Christians because they reject Him
Muslims also do not worship the same God because they also not only reject the Son but also the Father…according to the Bible.

I am not repelling anyone. However, I am not going to say they worship the same God as me when I do not believe they do.

By the way, those Jews before Jesus Christ did worship the one true God, I am not denying that. The Jews now, they are supposed to believe in Jesus Christ for He is God. The Messiah has come and they are supposed to believe that. Which is why in the Bible it says to go preach the Gospel to the Jew first. They need to be saved also and they also need faith in Jesus Christ.

Lets have a civil discussion. Of course the Jews are “supposed” to believe in Jesus. Everyone who hears the gospel (and many, many Jews have) should believe the gospel, but most Jews reject Christ as messiah. Some are not prepared to say all jews in this day and age are worshiping a false God because they do not accept Jesus. That would be a heavy statement because the God of the OT Jews is “our” God too. You are right that that you must have the son to have the father. It’s a two way street though for Muslims, they worship the Abrahamic God, but they also deny him. Since Jesus is God, and they deny that he is, they are technically denying God while still worshiping him.

St. Paul said this:
“Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious. For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, “To an unknown god.” What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you". As I said earlier it is a quandri.

 

[Nabooru]

I do not believe they worship the same God. They claim to, but upon inspection their claim makes no difference.

I personally think the only reason modern popes have made conciliatory statements towards Islam is because to not do so would be to place the lives of millions of Christians in the middle east and other Muslim regions in even more danger. See the reaction to a short film made by a virtually unknown person in another country that isn’t sponsored or condoned by that country’s government. God knows what would happen to the faithful in those lands if the pope did not appear to agree that their God is the One True God.