Jews--Christians--Muslims...same God?

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Razanir said:
I’ve yet to find a solid proof like this that Allah is the God of Abraham, but I at least have an argument for Judaism:

Note: In this argument, God refers to Christianity and YHWH refers to Judaism
  1. Jesus is God
  2. Being God, Jesus never sinned
  3. One of his commandments is not to worship any false gods
  4. Jesus was Jewish, as seen with the Last Supper being Passover
  5. Being Jewish, Jesus would have worshiped YHWH
Let us suppose YHWH is NOT God.
This would mean Jesus is worshiping a false god and breaking his own first commandment. This contradicts point 2, so Christianity and Judaism must logically worship the same God.

This, of course, if ignoring the fact that the Old Testament was used by Judaism first and that Acts tells the story of how we used to be a Jewish sect
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What makes you think we have a different god than yours?
 
The name “Allah”, as others have stated, is simply the Arabic word for “God”. The root comes from the old Semitic tongues which separately developed into the Hebrew “El” and used throughout the Old Testament to refer to God. (There are some places where the Tetragrammaton appears to have been edited out in favor of the generic “El” - this would have been prior to the canonization of scripture since one may not edit canonized scripture)

In Arabic-speaking countries, even Christians use the word “Allah” to praise God, even in the Sacred Liturgy.
 
meltzerboy said:
Technically, as I’m sure you know, Christians also believe in one G-d but consisting of three Persons. This is the mystery of the Trinity. Still, you are correct in that even the manifestation of G-d in three Persons is not acceptable for Jews or Muslims, although (most) Jews finally understand that Christians believe in only one G-d.
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We say the same thing, that Christians worship one God, but that the Trinity is unacceptable.
 
That I believe is the reason for the dialogue in the CCC as quoted, ecumenical, so people will relate however difficult it may be, because there is One God, the idea that others view God differently is the reason for the dialogue.

Look at this another way, if there is a path for communication why severe it by misunderstanding?
 
Explicit denial of Jesus Christ as God, thus denying a person of hte trinity, thus denying God, means you cannot have the same God as a Muslim or a jew who openly rejects Jesus or his divinity.
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
Explicit denial of Jesus Christ as God, thus denying a person of hte trinity, thus denying God, means you cannot have the same God as a Muslim or a jew who openly rejects Jesus or his divinity.
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Perhaps not the same manifestation of G-d, but I believe the CCC disagrees with what you say. I notice, however, that you are Orthodox, so maybe there is a slightly different teaching.
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
Explicit denial of Jesus Christ as God, thus denying a person of hte trinity, thus denying God, means you cannot have the same God as a Muslim or a jew who openly rejects Jesus or his divinity.
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So you are saying that the Muslims and Jews do not believe in the same God that Christians do?
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
Explicit denial of Jesus Christ as God, thus denying a person of hte trinity, thus denying God, means you cannot have the same God as a Muslim or a jew who openly rejects Jesus or his divinity.
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Then how do you explain the Old Testament. If Jews really worship a different God than us, wouldn’t using their holy book be the same as taking Greek mythology and replacing all references to Zeus with references to God?
 
There is only one God. If you grew here and I on the moon. We would have a different view of God. But there still would be one God. And we would both believe we have found the objective truth? No?

You deny their belief, so its a two-way street from your understanding, no? How do you figure we all move ahead in the world?

Listen if we have 3-major religions believing there is One God. Would you say that’s an accomplishment?

The fact someone doesn’t believe Jesus Christ isn’t God should be no thing. You don’t believe Mohammad was a Prophet? Right?

I’m having a little trouble following the logic.
 
GaryTaylor said:
There is only one God. If you grew here and I on the moon. We would have a different view of God. But there still would be one God. And we would both believe we have found the objective truth? No?

You deny their belief, so its a two-way street from your understanding, no? How do you figure we all move ahead in the world?

Listen if we have 3-major religions believing there is One God. Would you say that’s an accomplishment?

The fact someone doesn’t believe Jesus Christ isn’t God should be no thing. You don’t believe Mohammad was a Prophet? Right?

I’m having a little trouble following the logic.
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Who are you asking Gary?
 
I got from it is that if you deny Christ, part of the trinity, then you deny the whole trinity. Since Muslims and Jews deny Christ, they also deny the one who sent him thus we do not have the same God. Is that what you are sayin IgnatianPhilo?
 
An analogy with light for the Muslim and Jewish view of God. Suppose God is white light, and the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are red, green and blue light. That is, together they make up God. We know that this white light is made of parts, but they don’t. They choose only to worship the white light, or more accurately, the red one.
 
Here is a very interesting talk on the uniqueness of Jesus Christ by HG Bishop Suriel, Coptic Orthodox bishop of Melbourne, Australia. In it, HG uses the familiar “liar, lunatic, or Lord” argument, but goes to great length to expand upon it.

My polemical answer would match IgnatianPhilo’s, as this is the standard Orthodox answer/understanding of God as it relates to other religion, which does not endorse popular monotheism as the Roman Catholic view seems to (at the link, you can listen to an interview by EO priest Fr. Patrick Reardon wherein he talks about why exactly it is that this idea is wrong). But my experiential, holistic answer (for lack of a better way of putting it) is much closer to HG Bishop Suriel’s. I like this approach more because it takes the question outside of the paradigm of “who affirms X or Y” and puts it back onto the One Who should be our constant focus as Christians: Jesus Christ. It is because Jesus Christ is Who He says He is that the Jews and the Muslims and any number of other Christ deniers do not share our God. We did not exclude them via some sort of abstract concept of the Holy Trinity (which is not abstract to begin with, but many treat it as though it is) that they just couldn’t wrap their heads around or whatever. Christianity is not the assent to philosophical concepts, but real communion with the all-powerful living God who is the creator and ruler of everything.

So I think this question also applies to many Christians, too! :eek::o
 
Razanir said:
An analogy with light for the Muslim and Jewish view of God. Suppose God is white light, and the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are red, green and blue light. That is, together they make up God. We know that this white light is made of parts, but they don’t. They choose only to worship the white light, or more accurately, the red one.
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The problem with that analogy is that the Divine Persons are not Parts. Each is God, complete. The Light of the Father is just as bright and white as the light of the Trinity. It is not even the slightest bit red.
 
SonCatcher said:
The problem with that analogy is that the Divine Persons are not Parts. Each is God, complete. The Light of the Father is just as bright and white as the light of the Trinity. It is not even the slightest bit red.
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I understand that. My point was just that they effectively worship the whole without realizing God exists as a Trinity. Any analogy necessarily treats God as parts because the only thing that exists as a Trinity is God. The parts in my analogy by no means indicates that I’m a heretic
 
Razanir said:
I understand that. My point was just that they effectively worship the whole without realizing God exists as a Trinity. Any analogy necessarily treats God as parts because the only thing that exists as a Trinity is God. The parts in my analogy by no means indicates that I’m a heretic
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This raises an additional problem: Islam is actually built upon a denial of Christ’s divinity and a denial of the Holy Trinity. This is not a mere overlooking or misunderstanding or however else you could put it on the part of the Muslims. This is entirely a doctrinal statement/principle on their part. They actively reject it. They don’t just say “Well, I don’t get it, so it’s wrong”; they say "if you believe in the Trinity, you are an ‘associator’ (essentially, a polytheist, but the word in Arabic is “shirk”, meaning “share” or “associate”). They have a definite position on the Holy Trinity and Christ’s divinity, regardless of whether or not they understand it as Christians would (in that it is obvious that they do not).
 
meltzerboy said:
Technically, as I’m sure you know, Christians also believe in one G-d but consisting of three Persons. This is the mystery of the Trinity. Still, you are correct in that even the manifestation of G-d in three Persons is not acceptable for Jews or Muslims, although (most) Jews finally understand that Christians believe in only one G-d.
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Yes, thank you, one G-d in three persons, which is something that I have never quite understood, despite all infos and threads on here.
 
504Katrin said:
Yes, thank you, one G-d in three persons, which is something that I have never quite understood, despite all infos and threads on here.
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No one understands it except for God. These wonderful descriptions we see on CAF and elsewhere can help us to accept this mystery but not really to understand it.
 
Razanir said:
I understand that. My point was just that they effectively worship the whole without realizing God exists as a Trinity. Any analogy necessarily treats God as parts because the only thing that exists as a Trinity is God. The parts in my analogy by no means indicates that I’m a heretic
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That’s a question you may (perhaps, not sure) ask a Muslim, but not a Jew. The Torah has been there looong before anyone even thought about a Trinity. The Torah doesn’t teach anything anywhere about it. So, and hence you’re not supposed to add or take away from the Torah, Jews are only doing the right thing. Islam came up way later, but I really don’t know much about Islam though, only a tinsy bit.
 
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