Jews for Jesus Rejected by Catholic Church?

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Dan-Man916:
umm, Do you and cabaret have a feud going on, cause i don’t see what elicited the response that you got?
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Go back and re-read the exchange between Cabaret and myself, only make the voices in your head sound as if they are speaking with their tongues half-way into their cheeks. I think if you do that you will see that it is nothing like a feud going on. This is a very friendly conversation.

😉
 
The True Christian Answer to 'Messianic Jews’
**A columnist in *Catholic New York *states: ‘*In short, they (Messianic Jews) attempt to…‘sell’ Jews (particularly the young and vulnerable) a truncated version of Christianity. At the same time, they selectively appropriate elements of sacred Jewish tradition and practice. The result is a fundamental distortion of authentic Christianity and a denigration of the integrity of Judaism.’ ***
In fact, the Interfaith Conference of Metropolitan Washington, D.C., a group which includes Baptist and Mainline Protestant groups as well as the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Washington, D.C. states resolutely:
’These groups (Hebrew Christians or Messianic Jews) specifically target Jews for conversion to their version of Christianity…By celebrating Jewish festivals, worshipping on the Jewish Sabbath, appropriating Jewish symbols, rituals and prayers in their churches…they seek to win over…many Jews who are sincerely looking for a path back to their ancient heritage…These proselytizing techniques are tantamount to coerced conversions and should be condemned.'
Catholic New York, janyary 7, 1998, copyrighted and used with permission.

The Jewish Answer to 'Messianic Jews’
In a document ratified by the religious leaders of all four major Jewish denominations (Orthodox, Conservative, Reform and Reconstructionist), it is stated that: 'Jewish leadership had unequivocally declared ‘Hebrew Christians’ as completely seperate and disaaociated from the Jewish community.

Though Hebrew Christianity claims to a form of Judaism, it is not. It is nothing more than a disguised effort to missionize Jews and convert them to Christianity…Hebrew Christians are in a radical conflict with the communal interests and destiny of the Jewish people. They have crossed an unbreachable chasm by accepting another religion. Despite its seperation, they continue to attempt to convert their former coreligionists.
The Schiffman Statment, The Task Force on Missionaries and Cults, New York, NY

Blessings,
Shoshana
 
I think the problem that many Jews have with Jews for Jesus is that they are sneaky and underhanded in the way that they troll for members. They try to portray themselves as Jewish rather than Christian to lure Jews into their churches. I also think that Jews are very put-out, as Catholics are, by people who claim that their religion isn’t good enough and that they need to be evangelized. I have certainly seen plenty of people on these boards complain about protestant groups who do the same to Catholics. I would be proud to be Catholic and not behave in the manner of the Jfor J’s.
 
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Shoshana:
They have crossed an unbreachable chasm by accepting another religion. Despite its seperation, they continue to attempt to convert their former coreligionists.
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And some of the signatories to this statement are Reconstructionist Jews?!? Give me a break; how seriously can we take it when Orthodox, Conservative and Reform Jews are willing to say that Reconstructionist Judaism is real but Messianic Judaism is treachery? As I said, I carry no brief for Messianic Judaism, but the sort of hackles it raises among (what for lack of a better word one might term) mainstream Jews is just as laughable as Messianic Judaism is itself.
 
Lycos Drops Jews For Jesus Ad

WALTHAM, Massachusetts (CWNews.com) - The Lycos Internet search engine said on Tuesday that it was pulling a banner advertisement for the group Jews for Jesus after Jewish groups complained.

A Lycos spokesman said it had not renewed the contract with Jews for Jesus because of fears of a boycott by Jews. He said the ad started running July 6, and that since July 29 Lycos has received an unspecified number of angry e-mail messages. Jews for Jesus paid $1,700 for the banner that would appear at the top of browser windows of the first 40,000 people who typed in the word “Jewish” as a search term.

Susan Perlman, a spokesman for Jews for Jesus, says the group chose the search term in the assumption many Jews would see it. The ad read: “The end of the world is no time to finally realize Jesus is the Messiah. (It’s all in the book.) Click for free copy!” Lycos said that when people clicked on the link, they got a web page that gave the appearance Lycos endorsed Jews for Jesus, and that’s why the company decided not to renew its contract

Blessings,
Shoshana
 
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bapcathluth:
I think the problem that many Jews have with Jews for Jesus is that they are sneaky and underhanded in the way that they troll for members. They try to portray themselves as Jewish rather than Christian to lure Jews into their churches. I also think that Jews are very put-out, as Catholics are, by people who claim that their religion isn’t good enough and that they need to be evangelized. I have certainly seen plenty of people on these boards complain about protestant groups who do the same to Catholics. I would be proud to be Catholic and not behave in the manner of the Jfor J’s.
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:clapping:

Job well done…I rest my case…

Blessings,
Shoshana
 
Hi all!

Bapcathluth, you posted:
I think the problem that many Jews have with Jews for Jesus is that they are sneaky and underhanded in the way that they troll for members. They try to portray themselves as Jewish rather than Christian to lure Jews into their churches. I also think that Jews are very put-out, as Catholics are, by people who claim that their religion isn’t good enough and that they need to be evangelized.
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Well said! :tiphat:

I’ll go further. Many orthodox Jews (myself included) see “Jews for Jesus” as spiritual poachers or spiritual vampires.

GrzeszDeL, you posted:
And some of the signatories to this statement are Reconstructionist Jews?!? Give me a break; how seriously can we take it when Orthodox, Conservative and Reform Jews are willing to say that Reconstructionist Judaism is real but Messianic Judaism is treachery? As I said, I carry no brief for Messianic Judaism, but the sort of hackles it raises among (what for lack of a better word one might term) mainstream Jews is just as laughable as Messianic Judaism is itself.
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You’ve got a point. “Messianic Jews”, “Reconstructionist” Jews, “Reform” Jews and “Conservative” Jews have 2 things in common: 1) Many/most of them, in all likelihood, are Jewish (i.e. they were born of Jewish mothers or underwent orthodox conversions). 2) What they believe & practice is not Judaism. Traditional, normative Judaism is orthodox, not the foregoing newfangled, politically correct, watered down deviations.

Be well!

ssv 👋
 
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stillsmallvoice:
You’ve got a point. “Messianic Jews”, “Reconstructionist” Jews, “Reform” Jews and “Conservative” Jews have 2 things in common: 1) Many/most of them, in all likelihood, are Jewish (i.e. they were born of Jewish mothers or underwent orthodox conversions). 2) What they believe & practice is not Judaism. Traditional, normative Judaism is orthodox, not the foregoing newfangled, politically correct, watered down deviations.
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Actually, just use the term ‘Cafeteria Jews’ and you’ll be certain that here they’ll know exactly what you’re saying.
 
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cabaret:
Actually, just use the term ‘Cafeteria Jews’ and you’ll be certain that here they’ll know exactly what you’re saying.
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:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
 
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stillsmallvoice:
You’ve got a point. “Messianic Jews”, “Reconstructionist” Jews, “Reform” Jews and “Conservative” Jews have 2 things in common: 1) Many/most of them, in all likelihood, are Jewish (i.e. they were born of Jewish mothers or underwent orthodox conversions). 2) What they believe & practice is not Judaism. Traditional, normative Judaism is orthodox, not the foregoing newfangled, politically correct, watered down deviations.

Be well!

ssv 👋
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Hi stillsmallvoice,

I have been to Israel twice…once in 1995 and again in 2000. An experience that cannot be put into words. One day I will be back. I have made great friends with Arale Lahav and I remember speaking to him many times and of course, being french, I asked him if he prayed at the Wailing Wall. I saw so many young people that I was very impressed with their piety. He replied that he did not have to do that because God is everywhere…I snickered and said…true, Arale, and we have many of our own people in the faith saying the very same thing. Secularism in the Jews in Israel is just as rampant as it is in the Catholicism.

I also have another Jewish friend in Toronto and he is a devout Jew. Being devout and conservative and still having a great relationship with him enough to send me a Tanach, that one day he was getting ready for the Passover and I envied him the thought of a lamb. I told him to have bite for me. He said that he would never have lamb as he hates lamb. I responded and asked him what kinda conservative Jew would not have lamb for Passover??? :eek:

He has sent me much material about the Jewish faith and how Jesus as Messiah was bunk. Tons of paper later, we are still deliberating. He even sent me whole books like Ramban-The Disputation at Barcelona by Rabbi Chavel. That has caused me emberrassment, etc etc. I love him dearly…I also communicate by e-mail a great Jewish professor Kristi Groberg who is one author on ‘The Occult in Russian and Soviet Culture’ by Bernice Rosebthal. Interestingly enough, her chapter is ‘The Shade of Lucifer’s Dar Wing’ Satanism in Silver Age Russia.

Anyway, enough is enough. Phew…thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. 😃

Blessings,
Shoshana
 
First , thanks to all who responded to this thread. Being new to this forum, it was an experience reading your different perspectives.

As to the source of my original post, it was a response to my inquiry about JfJs not converting to Catholicism. I was upset that our Church should have condemned them outright and I wanted more insight. Did I learn it was a few misguided bishops, and not our Church Magisterium that condemned them?

To #1, not sure the writer gave a clear presentation of his or her concept about a personal relationship with Christ. Let me try.

All I know is what St Paul wrote: 'It is no longer I who live, but Christ within me." That implies the great mystery of divine union, where the ego-self dies to the old man, and a new being emerges with a pure heart, ‘reborn’ as it were into ‘another Christ’ after a baptism of fire. “Ye shall not be reborn except after much suffering”, Christ said.

Is it not written, “My Father and I shall come and dwell with you and teach you all things”? If we believe that the Flesh and Blood of Christ are transubstantiated on the altar from mere bread and wine, how much more should we believe in the possibility of mere flesh and blood mortals attaining Christ’s divinity by this mystery?

The Holy Eucharist cannot long remain just a reverent ritual wafer confined to an altar ceremony. For true believers, the Host they swallow quietly coaxes them to sanctity, … to someday become pulsing, breathing saints with healing in their wings. Because their prayers are heard and powerfully manifest, these extraordinary souls become Hosts of God no less worthy of humble reverence than the ones lifted to Sanctus Bells at our altars. They are called saints after a seeming ‘death’, but in Christ they can no longer die who live forever.

As Jesus wept for his own people who stubbornly refused to accept his message of eternal life, so too he weeps for his Church today, so riddled with wolves in sheep’s clothing seeking to devour his little ones. He gravely warns us, “Unless your virtue exceeds that of the priests and Scribes, ye shall not enter the kingdom of heaven”. As C.S. Lewis once wrote, " It is not enough that we be decent eggs…we must either hatch or go bad!" What a great pity that so few of us shall enter the narrow gate to eternal life! Most are content to let the Church trappings and rituals suffice. Most are content to leave Christ on the altar till next Sunday, instead of taking Him to heart.

Do Jews for Jesus fully understand this great mystery of salvation? For that matter, do other evangelist Protestants or even the majority of cradle Catholics truly understand these things? Only God knows for sure.
 
Hi all!

Cabaret, you posted:
Actually, just use the term ‘Cafeteria Jews’ and you’ll be certain that here they’ll know exactly what you’re saying.
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Well said!

I think that Roman Catholicism & orthodox Judaism (despite our rather obvious differences) have much in common. Our views on many ethical & moral issues are similar. But beyond that, ours are faiths with rules, with authority & structure & with discipline. Ours are not make-it-up-as-you-go-along faiths & never have been (I suppose Protestantism & Reform Judaism are like that); i.e. we’re not cafeteria faiths. Rather than mold the faith to fit the individual, I think that we believe that it is the individual who must mold him/herself to fit the faith. The late former Chief Rabbi of the British Commonwealth, Lord Immanuel Jakobovitz (of blessed memory) once said that a faith which demands nothing is worth nothing. To be an orthodox Jew demands a great deal & I have learned that to be a Roman Catholic is similarly very demanding.

Shoshana, you posted:
Anyway, enough is enough. Phew…thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
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And thank you for yours!

We’ll quaff a few beers/coffees when you next visit us here in Outremer!

Be well!

ssv 👋
 
I believe this conversation is mixing two distinct issues.

1.) Evangelical Christianity in any form other than Catholic is not authentic Christianity and therefore misses out on having access to the profound wisdom that Jesus’s Church gives to Her members. It’s as if non-Catholic Christians have a picture of a garden but Catholics are invited to walk in the actual garden. We do however share baptism and faith in Christ. We should therefore love and pray that these lost sheep that one day they find their way back home. Ibelieve that J4J are in this category.

2.) Salvation History: What is Gods plan of salvation in general and for the Jews and gentiles specifically? Never forget that the Jews are still His Chosen Ones and are still an integral part of Gods plan for all mankinds salvation. Please refer to “Salvation is from the Jews” by Roy H. Schoeman Published by Ignatius Press 2003. It is a very thought provoking book!
 
Presidential Appointee Serves as Top “Jews for Jesus” Leader
According to the White House website, George W. Bush this summer reappointed Lon Solomon, a top leader of “Jews for Jesus,” to a presidential committee. Mr. Solomon, the senior pastor of the McLean Bible Church in Virginia, has also “been on the Board of Jews for Jesus since 1987, where he now serves as chairman of the Board’s executive committee,” according to Mr. Solomon’s own bio on his church’s website.

Mr. Solomon takes his work proselytizing American Jews very seriously. In August, the Washington Times reported on an extremely well-organized effort to convert Jews in the Washington, DC area – and Mr. Solomon’s church was “the hub of the evangelistic effort.” The Times called it the “largest evangelistic effort in Washington in the 31-year history” of Jews for Jesus. To add insult to injury, the campaign was timed to coincide with the High Holidays.

The Times quotes Solomon saying, “My goal is 1 million pieces of literature handed out in four weeks. I’d like to see 500 Jews and Gentiles alike pray and ask Jesus into their life. …I love doing this.”

Campaign Expiration Date:
November 21, 2004
 
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GrzeszDeL:
What does that last post have to do with the Catholic Church? :confused:
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Nothing really. A Jewish friend sent me this article by e-mail and I quickly thought to put it on this thread. Not realizing this thread was not only about Jews for Jesus but about why the CC rejects Jews for Jesus. Sorry, my mistake…

Blessings,
Shoshana
 
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