Jews Look Down on Non-Jews?

[IvanKaramozov]

I’m looked up on this, so thought I would (name removed by moderator)ut to clear some confusion, any Jews please feel free to add to my limited exposition

jewfaq.org/gentiles.htm

"Judaism maintains that the righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come. This has been the majority rule since the days of the Talmud. Judaism generally recognizes that Christians and Moslems worship the same G-d that we do and those who follow the tenets of their religions can be considered righteous in the eyes of G-d.

Contrary to popular belief, Judaism does not maintain that Jews are better than other people. Although we refer to ourselves as G-d’s chosen people, we do not believe that G-d chose the Jews because of any inherent superiority. According to the Talmud (Avodah Zarah 2b), G-d offered the Torah to all the nations of the earth, and the Jews were the only ones who accepted it. The story goes on to say that the Jews were offered the Torah last, and accepted it only because G-d held a mountain over their heads! (In Ex. 19:17, the words generally translated as “at the foot of the mountain” literally mean “underneath the mountain”!) Another traditional story suggests that G-d chose the Jewish nation because they were the lowliest of nations, and their success would be attributed to G-d’s might rather than their own ability. Clearly, these are not the ideas of a people who think they are better than other nations.

Because of our acceptance of Torah, Jews have a special status in the eyes of G-d, but we lose that special status when we abandon Torah. Furthermore, the blessings that we received from G-d by accepting the Torah come with a high price: Jews have a greater responsibility than non-Jews. While non-Jews are only obligated to obey the seven commandments given to Noah, Jews are responsible for fulfilling the 613 mitzvot in the Torah, thus G-d will punish Jews for doing things that would not be a sin for non-Jews."

It actuallt looks like a very good websight, I’m looking at it.

 

[lukewarm]

Contrary to popular belief, Judaism does not maintain that Jews are better than other people. Although we refer to ourselves as G-d’s chosen people, we do not believe that G-d chose the Jews because of any inherent superiority. According to the Talmud (Avodah Zarah 2b), **G-d offered the Torah to all the nations of the earth, and the Jews were the only ones who accepted it. **The story goes on to say that the Jews were offered the Torah last, and accepted it only because G-d held a mountain over their heads! (In Ex. 19:17, the words generally translated as “at the foot of the mountain” literally mean “underneath the mountain”!) Another traditional story suggests that G-d chose the Jewish nation because they were the lowliest of nations, and their success would be attributed to G-d’s might rather than their own ability. Clearly, these are not the ideas of a people who think they are better than other nations.

I think the bolded part is absurd, first off it’s completely extra-biblical. And second it’s insulting, like everyone else told God (the almighty of the universe) to go get bent when He offered them “the Torah”…

God loves everyone, the idea of being God’s select, or God’s chosen, or special in God’s eye simply because the people who bore you had a certain ethnicity is simply supremacist nonsense.

Jews always believed that they were better than everyone else this is why they would not eat with, associate with, talk with gentiles. Gentiles were like filthy dogs to a Jew, even Jesus spoke these same words. If they’re reinventing themselves now great, but the religion has largely been a tribal supremacist religion.

 

[Yerusalyim]

Luke,

Your comments sound a bit antisemetic.

The comment about the Torah being offered to all nations is a bit of self deprication by the Jews, the tradition (small T) is that God offered his covenant to ALL OTHER NATIONS, that the Israelites were the very last ones he came to…self deprecation.

Secondly, being God’s chosen is A) biblical and B) not brought them much except misery. Apparently you don’t believe the scriptures

Jews do NOT condiser themselves better, they follow, or attempt to follow the rules of the covenant they have with God. They respect the dignity of all nations…period.

But you sound jealous, almost as if you have an inferiority complex.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

Jews always believed that they were better than everyone else this is why they would not eat with, associate with, talk with gentiles. Gentiles were like filthy dogs to a Jew, even Jesus spoke these same words. If they’re reinventing themselves now great, but the religion has largely been a tribal supremacist religion.

any proof?

 

[blossom02]

We sure cannot deny the fact that the Jews are the choosen people of God.
I sometimes wonder if we could trace our roots back how many of us would be of Jewish desent.

 

[lukewarm]

Luke,

Your comments sound a bit antisemetic.

Whatever…

The comment about the Torah being offered to all nations is a bit of self deprication by the Jews, the tradition (small T) is that God offered his covenant to ALL OTHER NATIONS, that the Israelites were the very last ones he came to…self deprecation.

Again this unsubstantiated nonsense, “God offered it everyone but only the Jews were good enough to accept it”… please

Secondly, being God’s chosen is A) biblical and B) not brought them much except misery. Apparently you don’t believe the scriptures

I take the OT with a huge grain of salt, I don’t condone the indiscriminant slaughter of entire peoples either. Not to mention the book was written by Jews, not surprising they are the stars of the tale.

Jews do NOT condiser themselves better,

That’s nonsense of course they do that is why many of their prayers begin with thank God for not making me a woman or a gentile.

But you sound jealous, almost as if you have an inferiority complex.

Not at all I think all people are equal in God’s eye regardless of what race they are. I think an ideology that claims they are God’s prefered, God’s chosen solely defined by their race is a pretty antiquated thought. I would be equally hard on a religion that claimed that white anglo saxon Europeans are prefered by God too. And they exist they are called neo-nazi’s…

Here are just a few from the talmud to back up my points:

Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.

Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile (“Cuthean”) the wages owed him for work.

Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile (“Cuthean”), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has “exposed their money to Israel.”

Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.

Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.

Kerithoth 6b: Uses of Oil of Anointing. "Our Rabbis have taught: He who pours the oil of anointing over cattle or vessels is not guilty; if over gentiles (goyim) or the dead, he is not guilty. The law relating to cattle and vessels is right, for it is written: "Upon the flesh of man (Adam), shall it not be poured (Exodus 30:32]); and cattle and vessels are not man (Adam). (these plainly states the goyim as being non-human animals).

There’s thousands of other references…

 

[Valke2]

I’m looked up on this, so thought I would (name removed by moderator)ut to clear some confusion, any Jews please feel free to add to my limited exposition

jewfaq.org/gentiles.htm

"Judaism maintains that the righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come. This has been the majority rule since the days of the Talmud. Judaism generally recognizes that Christians and Moslems worship the same G-d that we do and those who follow the tenets of their religions can be considered righteous in the eyes of G-d.

Contrary to popular belief, Judaism does not maintain that Jews are better than other people. Although we refer to ourselves as G-d’s chosen people, we do not believe that G-d chose the Jews because of any inherent superiority. According to the Talmud (Avodah Zarah 2b), G-d offered the Torah to all the nations of the earth, and the Jews were the only ones who accepted it. The story goes on to say that the Jews were offered the Torah last, and accepted it only because G-d held a mountain over their heads! (In Ex. 19:17, the words generally translated as “at the foot of the mountain” literally mean “underneath the mountain”!) Another traditional story suggests that G-d chose the Jewish nation because they were the lowliest of nations, and their success would be attributed to G-d’s might rather than their own ability. Clearly, these are not the ideas of a people who think they are better than other nations.

Because of our acceptance of Torah, Jews have a special status in the eyes of G-d, but we lose that special status when we abandon Torah. Furthermore, the blessings that we received from G-d by accepting the Torah come with a high price: Jews have a greater responsibility than non-Jews. While non-Jews are only obligated to obey the seven commandments given to Noah, Jews are responsible for fulfilling the 613 mitzvot in the Torah, thus G-d will punish Jews for doing things that would not be a sin for non-Jews."

It actuallt looks like a very good websight, I’m looking at it.

It is a good website and I’d agree with what you posted.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

I think the bolded part is absurd, first off it’s completely extra-biblical. And second it’s insulting, like everyone else told God (the almighty of the universe) to go get bent when He offered them “the Torah”…

Observing Torah is really what is supposed to make a Jew a Jew, biblically. It came through Israel but people of other nations could convert. So of course, anyone that isn’t a Jew didn’t accept Torah, so that’s not really inaccurate.

 

[Mirdath]

I take the OT with a huge grain of salt, I don’t condone the indiscriminant slaughter of entire peoples either. Not to mention the book was written by Jews, not surprising they are the stars of the tale.

Much as I agree with you on this point, everything else you’ve posted is more than a little offputting.

I think an ideology that claims they are God’s prefered, God’s chosen solely defined by their race is a pretty antiquated thought.

How is that any worse than an ideology which claims its members are God’s chosen solely on merit of membership?

 

[BlestOne]

Ivan…jewfaqs is a great website, I use it often in my research. As Christians and Catholics we view the Jewish people as our older brothers and sisters. We have much to learn from them. Indeed the Jews were God’s chosen people and for the Christian, it is important to remember that the Messiah came from the Jews.

Your specific question about Jews looking down on Gentiles has merit, but is not entirely correct. If you remember, God gave his people Israel (the Jews) commandments about keeping themselves separate from the Gentiles. You may ask why this was done… in fact it was because the Israelites were “young and impressionable” in their faith. We know this from their captivity in Egypt where many started worshiping the Gods of the Egyptians… and how did God show them their error? By conquering their Gods through the plagues. Yes… that’s right… If you look at all the plagues you can see that each of them represented a “god” of the Egyptian. The last plague was the most devastating… the first born sons of the Egyptians was indeed considered a God to them.

There are many other instances of God having to segregate Israel because they fell into idol worship and worshiped other Gods.

Anyway, lets fast forward to the days of Christ. He was born of a Jewish bloodline as was prophesied in the OT. In fact, he was a rather scandalous figure to the Jews because he did things to break down the separation that the Jews strictly enforced. The cleanliness laws…as an example. Jesus taught that it is not what you put into your body that makes you unclean, rather what comes out that makes a man unclean. He also touched lepers… no Jew in his right mind would do that, it would make him unclean, but again, Jesus pointed out that showing compassion and helping others did not make him unclean. Healing on the Sabbath? Picking grain and eating it? Eating with Gentiles? Jesus was trying to teach us what was more important. It was the spirit of the law not the letter of the law. This is what prompted such statements as when he challenged the Pharisee and the Sanhedrin.

In the end… there were those who believed that Jesus was the Messiah (Christians) and those who didn’t (Jews) and then the Good News was also spread to the Gentiles… which infuriated the Jews mostly because they had spent a lifetime separating themselves from them. So in essence, the Christians were made up of Jews first then opened up to the Gentiles as well, and salvation was spread to all. Now that being said… yes some of the Jews did consider themselves much better than the Gentiles because they were Gods chosen people and when Jesus came, he tried to change all that and some Jews didn’t accept him as the Messiah.

 

[BlestOne]

lukewarm:

I take the OT with a huge grain of salt, I don’t condone the indiscriminant slaughter of entire peoples either. Not to mention the book was written by Jews, not surprising they are the stars of the tale.

Wow… you really need to understand the OT. May I suggest the Great Adventure Bible Timeline study by Jeff Cavins?

lukewarm:

Not at all I think all people are equal in God’s eye regardless of what race they are. I think an ideology that claims they are God’s prefered, God’s chosen solely defined by their race is a pretty antiquated thought.

Again… wow! Historically this is the way things were, whether you accept it or not. Seriously… read the OT… note the family lines and the covenants God makes with Adam, Noah, and Abraham. A covenant is a family bond… it is for all descendants of the family…why do you think Jesus had to die on a cross? It was because us weak humans broke the covenants over and over… and the only way to atone for a broken covenant was by death. Those were the sins Jesus died for too… or don’t you believe that God exists outside of time?

Please do yourself a great favor and take a class on the old testament.

 

[BlestOne]

Wow, I think I killed this thread… sorry!

 

[Frank_J]

Hello

I happen to come upon this chat and wanted to see what was being said. I happen to married to a Jewish woman that I married back around 2001. She never made a remark against Gentiles an any shape or form.

I will bring this to her attention tonight and I want to hear her side of the story.

If this is true of Jews I can no long walk into a Jewish Temple for serves because if this is what they believe then this worst form racism and rubbish.

Wife has told me many times she loves me and I believe her and I feel the same about her.

I will feel uneasy with attend Jewish serves in the future. I will see how that chat goes with my wife.

Thank for bring up this subject so I can confront this topic with my wife.

 

[paidion]

Hello

I happen to come upon this chat and wanted to see what was being said. I happen to married to a Jewish woman that I married back around 2001. She never made a remark against Gentiles an any shape or form.

I will bring this to her attention tonight and I want to hear her side of the story.

If this is true of Jews I can no long walk into a Jewish Temple for serves because if this is what they believe then this worst form racism and rubbish.

Wife has told me many times she loves me and I believe her and I feel the same about her.

I will feel uneasy with attend Jewish serves in the future. I will see how that chat goes with my wife.

Thank for bring up this subject so I can confront this topic with my wife.

Yeesh! Not every Jew looks down on non-Jews, just as not every Catholic looks down on non-RCs. Sweeping generalizations are dangerous and promote even greater wrongs.

Also, to those who “take the OT with a huge grain of salt” - remember that each book is just as much inspired Scripture as the rest of the Bible. Is any part in Scripture less important than other parts? (Yikes!)

The OT has much more to say about G-d’s faithfulness and might rather than the Jews being the stars of anything. If one gets nothing else out of the OT, it should be clear that it shows G-d’s goodness/character/desire to relate with humans, and that there is nothing in us (humans) worthy of G-d’s concern/love.

shalom

 

[BlestOne]

Yeesh! Not every Jew looks down on non-Jews, just as not every Catholic looks down on non-RCs. Sweeping generalizations are dangerous and promote even greater wrongs.

Also, to those who “take the OT with a huge grain of salt” - remember that each book is just as much inspired Scripture as the rest of the Bible. Is any part in Scripture less important than other parts? (Yikes!)

The OT has much more to say about G-d’s faithfulness and might rather than the Jews being the stars of anything. If one gets nothing else out of the OT, it should be clear that it shows G-d’s goodness/character/desire to relate with humans, and that there is nothing in us (humans) worthy of G-d’s concern/love.

shalom

Exactly… excellent post paidion!!! I also think the merit of the OT is to see how man has failed just on the basis of lack of trust in God… starting with Adam… and where we have succeeded too … kind of outlines why we need a Messiah…

Frank,
I may be Catholic, but I have friends from just about every religion (and lack thereof ) so I think to say EVERY about any group is so wrong… One of my best friends is a Jew… I love talking scripture with her and her mom…

Where I live, we have 1 Temple within 50 miles… The rabbi is an awesome guy. We invited him to explain passover tradition to us (all Christian Churches in our town were invited) at our Catholic School… he came and gave an incredible lecture. Since then, the Episcopal church in our town has hosted an annual passover meal for the whole community.

Our local Lutheran Church hosts the annual Christmas party for the poor… again, every Christian Church helps out… my bosses wife is in charge of it (Catholic) and a bunch of us from each Church shop, wrap, cook, serve, clean up. transport, etc… same with our back to school clothing and school supply day…

What I am trying to say is that true love, friendship, compassion, and charity knows no prejudice…

 

[chosen_people]

I’m looked up on this, so thought I would (name removed by moderator)ut to clear some confusion, any Jews please feel free to add to my limited exposition

jewfaq.org/gentiles.htm

"Judaism maintains that the righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come. This has been the majority rule since the days of the Talmud. Judaism generally recognizes that Christians and Moslems worship the same G-d that we do and those who follow the tenets of their religions can be considered righteous in the eyes of G-d.

Contrary to popular belief, Judaism does not maintain that Jews are better than other people. Although we refer to ourselves as G-d’s chosen people, we do not believe that G-d chose the Jews because of any inherent superiority. According to the Talmud (Avodah Zarah 2b), G-d offered the Torah to all the nations of the earth, and the Jews were the only ones who accepted it. The story goes on to say that the Jews were offered the Torah last, and accepted it only because G-d held a mountain over their heads! (In Ex. 19:17, the words generally translated as “at the foot of the mountain” literally mean “underneath the mountain”!) Another traditional story suggests that G-d chose the Jewish nation because they were the lowliest of nations, and their success would be attributed to G-d’s might rather than their own ability. Clearly, these are not the ideas of a people who think they are better than other nations.

Because of our acceptance of Torah, Jews have a special status in the eyes of G-d, but we lose that special status when we abandon Torah. Furthermore, the blessings that we received from G-d by accepting the Torah come with a high price: Jews have a greater responsibility than non-Jews. While non-Jews are only obligated to obey the seven commandments given to Noah, Jews are responsible for fulfilling the 613 mitzvot in the Torah, thus G-d will punish Jews for doing things that would not be a sin for non-Jews."

It actuallt looks like a very good websight, I’m looking at it.

The website is accurate as to Judaism.

At the heart of Christianity is its universality. You are not only taught to believe that yours is the only one true religion but that acceptance of your beliefs is necessary for the required “salvation” which is also an integral part of your beliefs. From this non-Jewish perspective, Jewish introspection may be misinterpreted as indifference or even disdain for his non-Jewish neighbour. A Christian from his perspective may ask "If the Jew does not actively wish me to join in his community and to adopt his religion is it not because he believes me unworthy, because he looks down on me?

There is no validity to these feelings from the Jewish perspective. In Judaism a person is born innocent and with free choice between good and evil. A person is not born with sin (original or otherwise) and therefore there is no need for “salvation” from that “inborn sin”. Nor as was elucidated in the quoted website is there a need from a Jewish perspective for the non-Jew to adopt Judaism in order to get to the world to come. The Jew has a much harder time of it. This does not mean that a person determined to adopt Judaism as his religion is forbidden to do so. Under Jewish law a convert is to be accepted by the Jewish community as any other Jew.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

There is no validity to these feelings from the Jewish perspective. In Judaism a person is born innocent and with free choice between good and evil. A person is not born with sin (original or otherwise) and therefore there is no need for “salvation” from that “inborn sin”.

Not to long ago I read a piece on torah.org where the rabbi said Satan/yetzer hara was bound to humans with Adam and we need God to overcome it, so that would be the concept of original sin and salvation in Judaism. At least for some Jews anyway.

 

[chosen_people]

Not to long ago I read a piece on torah.org where the rabbi said Satan/yetzer hara was bound to humans with Adam and we need God to overcome it, so that would be the concept of original sin and salvation in Judaism. At least for some Jews anyway.

There is no original sin in Judaisim and there is no need for salvation. As stated a person is born with the potential to do both good and evil and the free choice between them. I presume that all the Rabbi said was that the potential for evil, “yetzer harah” can be avoided by following God’s commandments (the 613 mitzvot). This is an excellent example of someone interpreting concepts in another religion based on their own religious beliefs. I’m sure if you asked the Rabbi about salvation he would have replied “salvation from what”?

 

[Miles_Mariae]

Here are just a few from the talmud to back up my points:

Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.

Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile (“Cuthean”) the wages owed him for work.

Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile (“Cuthean”), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has “exposed their money to Israel.”

Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.

Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.

Kerithoth 6b: Uses of Oil of Anointing. "Our Rabbis have taught: He who pours the oil of anointing over cattle or vessels is not guilty; if over gentiles (goyim) or the dead, he is not guilty. The law relating to cattle and vessels is right, for it is written: "Upon the flesh of man (Adam), shall it not be poured (Exodus 30:32]); and cattle and vessels are not man (Adam). (these plainly states the goyim as being non-human animals).

There’s thousands of other references…

So is everyone just going to ignore this part? Not that I necessarily agree with lukewarm but these quotes seem to be quite telling about how Jews view other people. Moreover, I’ve heard that the Talmud contains much that would be very offensive to Catholics.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi

Quran mentions both the positive and negative qualities of Jews:

The Holy Quran : Chapter 2: Al-Baqarah **
[2:48] O Children of Israel! remember My favours which I bestowed upon you and that I exalted you above the peoples of the time. **[2:49] And guard yourselves against the day when no soul shall serve as a substitute for another soul at all, nor shall intercession be accepted for it, nor shall ransom be taken from it, nor shall they be helped.
[2:50] And remember the time when We delivered you from Pharaoh’s people who afflicted you with grievous torment, slaying your sons and sparing your women; and in that was a great trial for you from your Lord.
[2:51] And remember also the time when We divided the sea for you and saved you and drowned Pharaoh’s people while you looked on.
[2:52] And when We made Moses a promise of forty nights, then you took the calf for worship in his absence and you were the transgressors.
www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=2&verse=46

The Holy Quran : Chapter 5: Al-Ma’idah **
[5:13] And indeed Allah did take a covenant from the Children of Israel; and We raised among them twelve leaders. And Allah said, 'Surely, I am with you, if you observe Prayer and pay the Zakaat, and believe in My Messengers and support them, and lend to Allah a goodly loan, I will remove your evils from you and admit you into Gardens beneath which streams flow. But whoso from among you disbelieves thereafter does indeed stray away from the right path.’ **
[5:14] So, because of their breaking of the covenant, We have cursed them and have hardened their hearts. They pervert the words from their proper places and have forgotten a good part of that with which they were exhorted. And thou wilt not cease to discover treachery on their part, except a few of them. So pardon them and show forbearance. Surely Allah loves those who do good to others.
[5:15] And from those also who say, ‘We are Christians,’ We took a covenant, but they too have forgotten a good part of that with which they were exhorted. So We have caused enmity and hatred among them till the Day of Resurrection. And Allah will soon let them know what they have been doing.
www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=5&verse=10

Thanks