Jews Thank The Pope

[JKirkLVNV]

John TE:

This has never been the case in the Catholic Church, but that certainly do inspire us to stand against the hypocritical naturalism of those who refuse to convert. Our Lord is very explicit about the curse that the Scribes and Pharisees have brought upon themselves, repeating the curse “Woe to you scribes and Pharisees” no less than eight times in 17 verses in St. Matthew’s Gospel (23:13-29): “Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men, for you yourselves do not enter in; and those that are going in, you suffer not to enter…” The Jewish refusal of the supernatural order, as of the Messias, has made their religion, true until the time of Our Lord, now a false one. Hence the malediction, and our opposition to their refusal of the supernatural order, which is not anti-Semitism. Yes, quite true, Our Lord pronounced this malediction against these traditional LEADERS of the Jews. In this context, it doesn’t seem directed at the Jewish people as a whole.

From this follows the essential thesis of the above-mentioned document, namely that the Jewish concept of a future Messias does not conflict with the Christian belief in Jesus, for, it states, “The Jewish Messianic expectation is not vain.” How could such an expectation be not vain, given that they refuse Christ, the only Messias, who has already come? This means, if taken to its logical conclusion, that the refusal of the mystery of the Incarnation, of the birth of our Divine Savior in the flesh, is no longer a sin of infidelity, that is a grave sin against the Faith. If this were the case, how could it still be true for Our Lord to say: “I am the way, and the truth and the life. No man cometh to the Father but by me” (Jn 14:6)?

I googled your Father Fahey. I come up with a number of hits directing me to SSPX sites. He seems quite their little darling. Did you copy the prior posts whole cloth from one of their publications? I’m really having to fight the temptation to engage in an “ad hominum” attack regarding the SSPX. I will go so far as to say that you shouldn’t be hanging too much on what a bunch of schismatics with excommunicated leaders have to say on any given topic, let alone giving material support to their schism by attending one of their chapels. Scripture means what the Church says It means. She cannot teach error nor be lead into it. To deny the indefectability of the Church is to deny that Christ upholds her IN that indefectability. If you want to know the Church’s attitude (and what should be our proper attitude) toward the Jews, consult what the Holy Father, the Magisterium, the Council Fathers have to say. Anything else is dubious. They’ve never said we cannot oppose Zionism.

 

[CrusaderNY]

With all due respect JKirk, SSPX and the other “Schismatics” are the only ones with enough guts to stand up to the desecration at Fatima, as well as take on the watering down, wishy washy kissy kissy position that Our Vatican has. The Vatican has become an “Israeli Puppet state”, Israel wanted the Vatican in '04 to announce publically that Anti Zionism, which is fanaticism (who knows how many innocent British and Palestinians were killed at the hands of them in the 40’s , terrorists is what they are, with Marxism mixed in) is now equated with Anti-Semitism. And what about the Israeli’s having bulldozed and displaced over 800,000 “Semitic” peoples in the Palestinians in forming the State of Israel, but that is all Ok is it not?

Unfortunately, for rational, tradition defending Catholics as myself and millions others like me, the only places that you can find and read material that is not liberally biased, not to mention doctrinally incorrect and against everything the church stood for for 2000 years, is by those groups… Can you imagine if a Bishop came out and spoke out against the Pope’s beloved Israel? For that matter, it was the Protestant Evangelists who stood up for Mel Gibson while he was being attacked so viciously by the Jews, while the Vicar of our church said…NOTHING…But he has no problem speaking up day after day after day on how much we must find that one ounce of truth in all of these false religions, many of whom deny Our Lord, I find this appaling!!!

JKirkLVNV:

I googled your Father Fahey. I come up with a number of hits directing me to SSPX sites. He seems quite their little darling. Did you copy the prior posts whole cloth from one of their publications? I’m really having to fight the temptation to engage in an “ad hominum” attack regarding the SSPX. I will go so far as to say that you shouldn’t be hanging too much on what a bunch of schismatics with excommunicated leaders have to say on any given topic, let alone giving material support to their schism by attending one of their chapels. Scripture means what the Church says It means. She cannot teach error nor be lead into it. To deny the indefectability of the Church is to deny that Christ upholds her IN that indefectability. If you want to know the Church’s attitude (and what should be our proper attitude) toward the Jews, consult what the Holy Father, the Magisterium, the Council Fathers have to say. Anything else is dubious. They’ve never said we cannot oppose Zionism.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

CrusaderNY:

With all due respect JKirk, SSPX and the other “Schismatics” are the only ones with enough guts to stand up to the desecration at Fatima, as well as take on the watering down, wishy washy kissy kissy position that Our Vatican has. The Vatican has become an “Israeli Puppet state”, Israel wanted the Vatican in '04 to announce publically that Anti Zionism, which is fanaticism (who knows how many innocent British and Palestinians were killed at the hands of them in the 40’s , terrorists is what they are, with Marxism mixed in) is now equated with Anti-Semitism. And what about the Israeli’s having bulldozed and displaced over 800,000 “Semitic” peoples in the Palestinians in forming the State of Israel, but that is all Ok is it not? No, not at all ok. I support the goal of two sovereign states.

Unfortunately, for rational, tradition defending Catholics as myself and ***millions(I think you’ve overstated a number here)***others like me, the only places that you can find and read material that is not liberally biased, not to mention doctrinally incorrect and against everything the church stood for for 2000 years, is by those groups… Can you imagine if a Bishop came out and spoke out against the Pope’s beloved Israel? For that matter, it was the Protestant Evangelists who stood up for Mel Gibson while he was being attacked so viciously by the Jews, while the Vicar of our church said…NOTHING…But he has no problem speaking up day after day after day on how much we must find that one ounce of truth in all of these false religions, many of whom deny Our Lord, I find this appaling!!!

You were directed by Hagia Sophia to a link that stated the position of the Church on Anti-Zionism being equated with anti-semitism. “Domine Jesu” taught what an obedient Catholic’s attitude to relativism/indifferentiaism/other religions should be, I urge you to read it. I found nothing in Mr. Gibson’s film to be anti-semitic. I seem to recall the Holy See stating that the Holy Father never comments on movies, regardless of their content. I happened to have loved it. Where has the Pope supported Israel in any inequity toward the Palestinian people? I was under the impression that HE supported the idea of two sovereign states as well, though I may be wrong.

 

[CrusaderNY]

And around and around we go…Why was the original statement then ever made? This is what happens when you have no leadership, as this back and forth, refuting and finger pointing, yes it was said, no it wasnt , just like the desecration at Fatima where the Bishop says the Pope knew and told him to go ahead and the Vatican then said they never did, is all a smokescreen. If no one would have caught onto these rediculous statements, it would never have been recanted. The Vatican II church pushes and pushes the envelope in the spirit of Ecumenism and liberalism and like all liberals they see what they can get away with, and they always go after the entire loaf, and when the get half, they are happy, only to return to go back after the other half and soon the conservative (in this case the tradition of the church) is gone as the Loaf=Traditions have been swallowed by the hungry liberal. Can you ever imagine Pope St Pius V, who defeated the Moslem invaders, and author of Quo Primium, which leaves none of this “wiggle room” to make or allow such statements on his watch, or Pope St Pius X?

JKirkLVNV:

You were directed by Hagia Sophia to a link that stated the position of the Church on Anti-Zionism being equated with anti-semitism. “Domine Jesu” taught what an obedient Catholic’s attitude to relativism/indifferentiaism/other religions should be, I urge you to read it. I found nothing in Mr. Gibson’s film to be anti-semitic. I seem to recall the Holy See stating that the Holy Father never comments on movies, regardless of their content. I happened to have loved it. Where has the Pope supported Israel in any inequity toward the Palestinian people? I was under the impression that HE supported the idea of two sovereign states as well, though I may be wrong.

 

[John_TE]

JKirkLVNV:

I googled your Father Fahey.

“My Father Fahey,” as you put it, died in 1950, so any attempts to associate him with excommunications of some SSPX clergy that happened in the '80s are based in fallacy.

JKirkLVNV:

Scripture means what the Church says It means. She cannot teach error nor be lead into it. To deny the indefectability of the Church is to deny that Christ upholds her IN that indefectability. If you want to know the Church’s attitude (and what should be our proper attitude) toward the Jews, consult what the Holy Father, the Magisterium, the Council Fathers have to say. Anything else is dubious. They’ve never said we cannot oppose Zionism.

Well this is an interesting challenge you bring up, because as I’ve already stated, Fr. Fahey died in 1950, over a decade before the PASTORAL Second Vatican Council attempted to radically redefine church teaching on matters pertaining to Jews among many other things.

Father Fahey’s writing was firmly founded in 1900 years of church dogma and teachings which the PASTORAL Second Vatican Council attempted to radically redefine 40 years ago: a pastoral Council which is proving to have disastorous effects to both church and laypeople. So, an attempt to judge Fr. Fahey’s writing by the standards of a flawed pastoral council which occured after he died does not hold water.

 

[Joseph_Romero]

This thread is wandering into a banned topic, the topic of sedevacantism. Accordingly it is now closed.

God Bless,