Jihad with Sword – Ahmadi site

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dolphinlove said:
I find that people that are Muslim are either, born in the religion, are forced to convert into Islam or are just lost their way in life and are easily convinced that Islam is the way, basically they dont know any better and take the easiest option, and we know how muslims can lie to make the religion look good. Some people are easily influenced by lies and deception.
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To me, it’s like a cloud of ignorance had descended over Moslems. Satan, the father-of-lies, has brought their minds to a state where rational debate is hardly possible.

I’ve seen it so many times. You raise a discussion on one subject and it’s quickly diverted to other topics, or the tu quoque fallacy comes into play.
 
Montalban said:
To me, it’s like a cloud of ignorance had descended over Moslems. Satan, the father-of-lies, has brought their minds to a state where rational debate is hardly possible.

I’ve seen it so many times. You raise a discussion on one subject and it’s quickly diverted to other topics, or the tu quoque fallacy comes into play.
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Yes true, they dont know how to look outside the square, they are blinded by the lies.
Anyway good night…
 
Hi

Jihad with Sword – Ahmadi site, the remaingin portion of the article:

It is high time that all these base charges should be cleared from the face of Islam. If the Maulvis unite to root out the evil from the midst of the Muhammadans, they shall have done a lasting good to, and conferred a blessing upon their co-religionists. Such an exposition of the doctrines of Islam will further reveal the excellence and beauties of that religion to the general public, and the aversion which its opponents have conceived on account of misconception shall be turned into admiration.

The clouds of dust being cleared, they shall then be able to get their light from that source of light. It is evident that no one can approach a bloody murderer. Every one fears him, women and children tremble at his sight, and he looks like a mad man. An opponent of an alien religion cannot even pass a night with him let he should choose to be a Ghazi at the cost of his life. Such events daily occur among the ignorant frontier people, and a single bloody deed is deemed sufficient to entitle the murderer to paradise and its manifold blessings. It is shame for Muhammadans that alien races cannot safely live as their neighbours. They cannot trust them for a single moment and hardly expect any good in times of need. They do not deem themselves save among them and shrink at the hidden belief of Ghazism.

An instance of this occurred lately here in Qadian. On the 20th of November last a European came here. Just at that time a number of my followers has assembled together and the conversation was upon a religious subject. The traveller stood apart from the assembly and was addressed in polite words. It appeared that he was apprehensive. He stated that he had seen many Muhammadans who had committed atrocious deeds of murder against Christians. He mentioned several specific instance in which such cruelty had been shown.

It was then explained to him that this, the Ahmadiyya sect of Islam, abhorred such doctrines and hated their adherents such doctrines and hated their adherents. It had set before itself the noble object of uprooting this evil. Upon this he felt satisfied and stayed here for one night.

There is a lesson in this story for the pro-Jihad Maulvis. The growth of such horrible doctrines among the Muslims, has done lasting injury to the cause of Islam and created an abhorrence for it in the hearts of other nations. They have no confidence in their sympathy so long as the dangerous doctrine os Jihad finds favour with them. They cannot form a favourable opinion except of such of them as do not lead strictly religious lives and are not very scrupulous about their religious beliefs. For all these misunderstanding none but the Muslims themselves are responsible.

The blame of depriving a whole world of the recognition of Islamic truths lie at the door of the Maulvis who taught doctrine repulsive to the nature of man. How could the religion be from God, whose teachings needed the flash of the sword to get an entrance into the human heart? Such considerations were enough to keep back people from the acceptance of truth. The true religion is that which on account of its inherent property and power and its convincing arguments is more powerful than the keenest sword, not that which depends upon steel for its existence.

Thanks
 
dolphinlove said:
Never have wavered, im on the right path.
Thanks very much for your concern anyhow.
God Bless
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I don’t even read paarsurrey’s stuff any more. Ahmadi’s are not considered Moslem by other Moslems, but he shows all signs of being one - evasion, spamming etc.
 
Montalban said:
I don’t even read paarsurrey’s stuff any more. Ahmadi’s are not considered Moslem by other Moslems, but he shows all signs of being one - evasion, spamming etc.
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didnt actually read his stuff, he just said this to me specifically:
Hi

May GodAllahYHWH guide you to the true path, make you steadfast ,without wavering!

Thanks

so im just answering what he said, and sorry to make you read more of what he has written…
 
Originally Posted by Montalban
I don’t even read paarsurrey’s stuff any more. Ahmadi’s are not considered Moslem by other Moslems, but he shows all signs of being one.
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For dolphinlove

Hi

You know that the JWs say that they are the only true Christians. Does that make the Orthodox people non-Christians or they remain one?

If yes, why?
If no, why?

Please give reasons.

Thanks
 
paarsurrey said:
For dolphinlove

Hi

You know that the JWs say that they are the only true Christians. Does that make the Orthodox people non-Christians or they remain one?

If yes, why?
If no, why?

Please give reasons.

Thanks
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Of course Orthodox are Christians.
They are the closest to the catholic faith. The only difference (and correct me if Im wrong any orthodox) is that they dont consider the pope as head of their church.
They believe in baptism, the eucharist and most importantly, that Jesus IS the son of God and died on the cross for us.
Hence, they are our Christian brothers and sisters.
 
dolphinlove said:
Of course Orthodox are Christians.
They are the closest to the catholic faith. The only difference (and correct me if Im wrong any orthodox) is that they dont consider the pope as head of their church.
They believe in baptism, the eucharist and most importantly, that Jesus IS the son of God and died on the cross for us.
Hence, they are our Christian brothers and sisters.
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Hi

So it is you or perhaps Montalban who decides who is a Christian or not a Christian; and it is also Montalban’s discretion to decide who is Muslim or not a Muslim. There is no principled stance whatsoever in this connection and there is no need for such a principled stance as long as you both or specially Montalban lives, people could ask him as to who is who and they must get satisfied with, of course without reason.

Thanks
Thanks
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

So it is you or perhaps Montalban who decides who is a Christian or not a Christian; and it is also Montalban’s discretion to decide who is Muslim or not a Muslim. There is no principled stance whatsoever in this connection and there is no need for such a principled stance as long as you both or specially Montalban lives, people could ask him as to who is who and they must get satisfied with, of course without reason.

Thanks
Thanks
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First thing is first, when did i say you are not Muslim?
Secondly, where did Montalban say you are not a Muslim? If you read it correctly, it states OTHER muslims do not consider Ahmadi to be muslims, which is the truth. I remember one of the other muslims on this site stating they do not consider Ahmadi muslim.
To me, it doesnt matter if you consider yourself a muslim or not, what is important however is that people are happy in what they believe in.
What does my opinion matter anyway? If you believe your a Muslim, well good on you, then you are a muslim. Who cares what anyone thinks!
 
dolphinlove said:
Of course Orthodox are Christians.
They are the closest to the catholic faith. The only difference (and correct me if Im wrong any orthodox) is that they dont consider the pope as head of their church.
They believe in baptism, the eucharist and most importantly, that Jesus IS the son of God and died on the cross for us.
Hence, they are our Christian brothers and sisters.
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Yep. For reasons not going to be debated here, we believe there’s no basis for one leader of the church - such as the Pope.

And indeed, I did say most Moslems don’t consider his faith as Islamic.

The reason they don’t is because his version completly over-throws the notion of Muhammed being the last prophet by claiming that Islam was in need of other prophets - in much the same way as Joseph Smith made claims about Christianity to justify his own additions to Christian faith.
 
Montalban said:
Yep. For reasons not going to be debated here, we believe there’s no basis for one leader of the church - such as the Pope.
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Hey, no reason to debate, we are all brothers and sisters.
Each to their own!
 
Montalban said:
And indeed, I did say most Moslems don’t consider his faith as Islamic.
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Hi

The JWs say that they are the only true Christians; just because of their saying this; would you consider yourself or the Orthodox people as non-Christians?

I think you would, as this is your principle.

Thanks
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

The JWs say that they are the only true Christians; just because of their saying this; would you consider yourself or the Orthodox people as non-Christians?

I think you would, as this is your principle.

Thanks
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The difference here is, you are saying JW’s only consider themselves christians, Montalban is saying most Muslims do not consider your religion as part of Islam.
The difference here is JW’s make this claim, Muslims make the claim ahmadi is not part of islam, Montalban is not saying you are not, its the other sects of Islam that are.
Do you see the difference?
Your mistakenly saying Montalban is saying it, this is not so…
 
dolphinlove said:
The difference here is, you are saying JW’s only consider themselves christians, Montalban is saying most Muslims do not consider your religion as part of Islam.
The difference here is JW’s make this claim, Muslims make the claim ahmadi is not part of islam, Montalban is not saying you are not, its the other sects of Islam that are.
Do you see the difference?
Your mistakenly saying Montalban is saying it, this is not so…
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Ahmadi’s are rejected as Moslems by most other Moslems, indeed. A principle of Islam is that Muhammed is the last prophet (excluding anyone that is, who’ll come at the end of the world to judge). For Ahmadi’s to come along and adopt much of Islam, but reject this, they’re considerd as a kind of Islamic heretic.

Their Islam v2.0 is not *necessary *to most Moslems -hence most aren’t Ahmadi.

And, like the relationship of Mormons to Christians, claims at apostasy (or mixed-up revelations) aren’t unique to them either.

The Baha’i also claim additional messengers to Muhammed.

It’d be a bit like if some guy came along and claimed to be a ‘new’ guru in Sikhism, despite the fact Gobind Singh said he’d be the last one.

And this is a good example, for Sikhism has some Islamic roots
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

The JWs say that they are the only true Christians; just because of their saying this; would you consider yourself or the Orthodox people as non-Christians?

I think you would, as this is your principle.

Thanks
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paarsurrey you have said this so many times, I cant believe you are still saying it

Just because the JWs say they are the only true Christians, dont make them right.

So why would we alter what we call ourselves due to what they say then??

sigh
 
kellie said:
paarsurrey you have said this so many times, I cant believe you are still saying it

Just because the JWs say they are the only true Christians, dont make them right.

So why would we alter what we call ourselves due to what they say then??

sigh
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needs to practice his cutting and pasting skills on the computer…😛
 
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