Joel Osteen/Prosperity Gospel

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rinnie said:
But not a true Catholic will be swayed by them, can actually see right through them.

But my question what makes what they are doing any worse then any other one.

How about the Protestant teachers either on TV or in the Churchs that tell People

EVERYBODY GETS IN. Jesus payed the sin, if you believe you receive!!

Or the one that says to the true poor person forget the cable, forget the gas, give the money to the Church GOD WILL REWARD YOU!!

And no offesne this is TONS of book, and teaching from Catholic Saints and Bishops and Pope, and Normal Catholic People.

But you know why People don’t want it. Because it don’t lie. It tells you, you sin, you refuse to repent and change your ways rather you believe in God or not, you will go to hell.

God knows every evil thought, deed and you will pay.

My point is as far as Joel and the other. Simply why so surprised. Its Typical. Fool people for a buck.

My favorite one personally is that little fat one in the white suit. That looks like boss hogg.If I had to pick one. He’s my Man. I mean if I want lies I want entertainment too.😃
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lol…I don’t think I know that one.

But I can understand your frustration rinnie. When you are in the fullness of Faith and Truth you want all to see and know it. We need to rely on the Holy Spirit. But we can proclaim the Truth, defend the Faith and pray, always pray.
 
robwar said:
Rinnie,
you are derailing this thread. This thread is not about all of Protestantism and lumping them together. The Catholic church calls them our separated brothers and sisters. There are many good God fearing Protestants, in fact many Protestants take their faith very seriously, sometimes more so and better than many Catholics. This thread is about a rather heretical belief system which in essence ruduces God to a giant Santa Claus. It also a more recent error from the 1900’s. There are many more Protestants that are concerned with Joel and Joyce than even many Catholics. You seem to be on some anti-Protestant kick here. I think you should be reminded that the Catholic church does recognize Protestant baptism done in the trinitarian form as a valid sacrament. I think you need to stay on topic which is an important one since these people are popular and out there.
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I am at a loss why you are attacking me for expressing my opimion. Do Joel and Joyce not have free will to teach what they want also.

I mean don’t you think our faith has problems with what Protestants teach?

But just as they have free will to accept or reject the teachings of the Church, its goes the same for these modern day Preachers.🤷

I am quite aware of what the Church teaches about us being united to ALL Protestants in baptism including Joel and Joyce. But we don’t have to agree with what they teach.
 
alexandratm said:
So, if anyone could help me put together a more coherent statement about why Osteen’s preaching, particularly about the prosperity gospel, is wrong and is contrary to Catholic beliefs, I’d really appreciate it
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The main reason, in a nutshell, is because Mr. Osteen preaches a resurrection without a crucifixion.

Anyone who wants to acknowledge the resurrection must first acknowledge the crucifixion.

There can be no Easter Sunday without a Good Friday.

There can be no heaven for us without taking up our crosses.
 
I feel like I have to give a more detailed response than the one I gave earlier, if for no other reason than that a lot of the Theology used by the early “Faith Healers” came from the founder of my own denomination.

Specifically, I refer you to “The Gospel of Healing” by Rev. A.B. Simpson, Founder of the Christian & Missionary Alliance, first published in 1888.

I won’t give you the whole book here, but to summarize the basic points:

1 - For the Christian, the only animating principle we have, both spiritually and physically is the life of Christ in us.

2 - Christ has promised us, individually and corporately, that He will meet all our physical and spiritual needs and that we are guaranteed, by virtue of His work on the Cross for us, physical health and personal wealth.

3 - If any Christian finds him or herself on physical or material need, we are to, in simple faith, ask Christ to meet that specific need and to trust that He will do as he promised.

Sounds just like modern “Name it and claim it” doesn’t it?

Well… while it’s certainly been used that way, those who do so miss a few really important things:

First, Christ promises us that He will meet our needs. And what do we really need? We need those things that will enable us to serve Him in the way that He has called us. If you are called… really called… to be serve Christ by being a missionary in China but you lack the funds to get there, then know that Christ has promised you that you will have everything you need and trust that He will provide. Initially, Simpson only acknowledged miraculous, supernatural provision, but later in his life, He came to recognize the hand of God in good old fashioned providence (as in doctors, donors, etc.) as being no less worth of being seen as a fulfillment of that promise.

Second, Simpson’s understanding, not just of this but of every other distinctive point of his theology, can only be understood in the context of his eschatology. What do I mean by that? Well… in the case of material provision and physical healing I mean that while Christ has absolutely promised every Christian that every thing we could ever want or need will be ours in Christ, the full measure of that provision has to wait for the resurrection of the dead. Any miraculous healing we may experience between now and then should be seen as exactly what they are: exceptional, out of the ordinary first-fruits of that glorious resurrection and should not be seen as the norm nor should we presume upon God’s grace that He will always choose to heal someone miraculous or even at all, at least on this side of eternity.

Finally, none of that promise means that we will be absolutely free of all trial or suffering in this life. Trials and sufferings are, indeed, great channels for God’s sanctifying grace in our lives and when are beset by them, we should thank God for them and allow them to do their work in us, confident in the fact that He is yet with us in the midst of this and that, one day, this too shall pass.
 
Unfortunately, we miss this, even in the Alliance. I have experienced two healings in my life. The first one was when I had ruptured a disc in my back. I was scheduled for surgery and before I went in, I came to a healing service at my church. I came down the aisle, explained what was going on to the Elders and then anointed me with oil and laid hands on me in the manner we believe Scripture commands us to. After I was done, they asked me if I felt better and I said no, but that I was nevertheless trusting in God to heal me. I had my surgery and after a lot of painful physical therapy I got better. Not all the way better, but I was able to function.

The Senior Pastor (who unfortunately was a Benny Hinn devotee) said to me months later, “You know… I’m really disappointed that God didn’t heal you. I was sure He would.” I just looked at him with that RCA dog look and said, “He did.” I could see that it “rebooted” his theology a bit and I left it at that.

Along with all of this, I had been dealing with a life long problem with anxiety and depression. I’m not lying when I said it almost killed me on several occasions, but with a lot of help and the right meds, I was managing it. I never asked for a healing. I never expected it. I just considered it my cross to bear and looked forward to the day when Christ Himself would wipe the tears from my eyes and finally make me whole.

Then, one Sunday afternoon, I woke up from an after church nap and said to myself, “You just got healed.” I then promptly went back to sleep and didn’t think any more of it until I started to show odd symptoms that my meds were wrong. I did what I had done several times in the past and called my doctor for what was probably going to yet another adjustment in my dosage. I explained to him what was going on and he said, “Well… this is odd, but I think you’re showing signs that you’re over medicated. Let’s cut your dosage in half and see what happens.” So we did… and things were fine for me. No panic attacks. No suicidal thoughts. Not even the occasional “out of the blue” crying fit. But I was still feeling over medicated. So we cut in half again… and then again… and then completely ceased them altogether and I was still absolutely fine. That was 10 years ago and I still haven’t had a single panic attack or the least bit of trouble with either the depression or the anxiety.

The same Senior Pastor said to me, “You should give a testimony! You stepped out in faith and God healed you!” But then I gave him that same RCA dog look and said, “But I didn’t have any faith. I didn’t name or claim anything. Heck… I didn’t believe it was a miracle until I said that half-jokingly to my doctor and he told me that it wouldn’t be the first one he’d seen.”

That “rebooted” him again.

It’s a long story, I know and I apologize for that, but the important thing is this: We should look to our Lord with every expectation that He will provide all that we need to serve him in terms of material provisions and physical healing. If we need Him to, He can and will move mountains for us, but we need to let Him worry about that. All we can do is just keep putting one foot down in front of the other and trust him to either move that mountain, give us the strength to go over it, or give us the wisdom to go around it.

My job is to go, give, and pray. His job is to take care of everything else and whatever I receive from His hand, I will, by His grace, receive with thankfulness and a joyful heart.
 
PRmerger said:
The main reason, in a nutshell, is because Mr. Osteen preaches a resurrection without a crucifixion.

Anyone who wants to acknowledge the resurrection must first acknowledge the crucifixion.

There can be no Easter Sunday without a Good Friday.

There can be no heaven for us without taking up our crosses.
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Among tons of other thing’s we could go on for hours. But my point I was trying to make, there is more Protestant teaching that would bother me much more then making God seem like Santa, As much as I hate to admit it, I still love Santa,😃

Thinking of Santa to me means happness, gifts knowing everything I want. Ask and you will receive. But even with Santa you don’t get EVERYTHING you ask for:(

But not to derail, but my point is as a Catholic, there are much more things that would upset me then comparing God to Santa.

Like rejecting Christ in the Eucharist. But my opinion which I don’t think is wanted here:(I will leave. I just don’t see the big deal.
 
God,Please forgive me if I am Judging this Guy, but for me he is just a person that use the Bible and The name Of Our Savior Jesus, to make money… it really make angry Jesus because you died for me, you suffer for me, yo went trough Humiliation, pain, and more, just to show me how big is your love for us, that is why it makes me angry that people use you as a “personal Businesses” Father please forgive them for they know not what they do.
 
Amo_a_Jesus said:
God,Please forgive me if I am Judging this Guy, but for me he is just a person that use the Bible and The name Of Our Savior Jesus, to make money… it really make angry Jesus because you died for me, you suffer for me, yo went trough Humiliation, pain, and more, just to show me how big is your love for us, that is why it makes me angry that people use you as a “personal Businesses” Father please forgive them for they know not what they do.
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On that front…

Every single time I see one of these guys on the TV, I am reminded of that great Ray Stevens song that goes:

Would He wear a pinkie ring?
Would He dive a fancy car?
Would His wife wear furs and diamonds?
Would His dressing room have a star?

If He came back tomorrow,
There’s something I’d like to know:
Can you tell me,
Would Jesus wear a Rolex on his television show?
 
I wonder why Oprah love him so much … he got a Powerful smile
 
BeProfOSX said:
It’s a long story, I know and I apologize for that, but the important thing is this: We should look to our Lord with every expectation that He will provide all that we need to serve him in terms of material provisions and physical healing.
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Thanks for taking the time to share your faith with us!
 
benjohnson said:
Thanks for taking the time to share your faith with us!
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I think the misunderstanding arises from the term “look to the Lord”. If what is meant is that we should present all our perceived needs–both spiritual and temporal—to the Lord in supplication–I would totally agree. Conversely, if what is meant is that somehow Jesus has made an implied promise that our time on earth need not be painful, that we may not have crosses to bear–whether those crosses be financial, health related or otherwise-- then I believe that to be a grave distortion of what Jesus actually said–not to mention the life that He, Himself, lived on earth and told the apostles and early christian churches to live. I truly don’t believe that God will choose to answer every prayer for wealth–unless, of course, a tornado hits Osteen’s house and spreads some of his around!👍
 
Starrsmother said:
I think the misunderstanding arises from the term “look to the Lord”. If what is meant is that we should present all our perceived needs–both spiritual and temporal—to the Lord in supplication–I would totally agree. Conversely, if what is meant is that somehow Jesus has made an implied promise that our time on earth need not be painful, that we may not have crosses to bear–whether those crosses be financial, health related or otherwise-- then I believe that to be a grave distortion of what Jesus actually said–…
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Very well said.
 
Amo_a_Jesus said:
I wonder why Oprah love him so much … he got a Powerful smile
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Why do you think? Oprah spouts humanist, secular-mystical mumbo-jumbo, positive thinking on her show. There is very little difference between Oprah and Osteen, except Osteen identifies it explicitly with Christianity.

(I’m basing my statement on Osteen’s “preaching,” which is really just motivational speaking. I have no knowledge of the content of the other ministries at Osteen’s church, but I’d hope they at least share the gospel in some meaningful way to all the people who attend.)
 
Joel Osteen makes people feel good and he’ll always maintain a strong viewership because of that. My co-workers, non-Christians & Christians, love listening to him because he’s uplifting. Any religious/spiritual advice comes from or revolves around Joel Osteen.
 
ltwin said:
Why do you think? Oprah spouts humanist, secular-mystical mumbo-jumbo, positive thinking on her show. There is very little difference between Oprah and Osteen, except Osteen identifies it explicitly with Christianity.

(I’m basing my statement on Osteen’s “preaching,” which is really just motivational speaking. I have no knowledge of the content of the other ministries at Osteen’s church, but I’d hope they at least share the gospel in some meaningful way to all the people who attend.)
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Oprah loves him because he describes her life and tells her that she got all she has because God loves her and says she deserves it–no strings attached. If I were Oprah, I’d be Osteen’s #1 disciple—as he would be speaking to my very soul!🤷
 
ltwin said:
Why do you think? Oprah spouts humanist, secular-mystical mumbo-jumbo, positive thinking on her show. There is very little difference between Oprah and Osteen, except Osteen identifies it explicitly with Christianity.

(I’m basing my statement on Osteen’s “preaching,” which is really just motivational speaking. I have no knowledge of the content of the other ministries at Osteen’s church, but I’d hope they at least share the gospel in some meaningful way to all the people who attend.)
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He is following in his father’s footsteps ( john Osteen) and took over the church when his dad passed away.
 
Osteen doesn’t warn people about their sins, judgment, or hell. He doesn’t seemed concerned about saving people, but improving self esteem.
 
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