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7_Sorrows
Guest
What is the difference if you turn it over to God to find something lost or St. Jude? Twice I have lost important things and have prayed to God and St. Jude and I found them.
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on_the_hill
Guest
My wife prays to St Anthony. But that’s somewhat beside the point. Yes, we frequently hear the message to turn our lives over to God. But we don’t do it in order to be rewarded with money, possessions, career success, fame, etc., which seems to be at the center of Osteen’s message.
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PolarGuy
Guest
I happen to like Joel Osteen AKA “the smiling preacher” very much.
He’s fake? Hmmm…I think he’s a lot more genuine than a lot of priests I’ve met, and I think he speaks more to people’s hearts than any homilist I’ve ever heard.
He’s sugary and empty like cotton candy? As opposed to the forgettable homilies we hear every week at Mass, none of which ever mention real-world issues? I’ve gone to Mass weekly my whole life, and I have never, ever* once *heard a priest say, “you should not be living with a person of the opposite sex you’re not married to.” I’ve heard Joel Osteen say that. I’ve heard him basically tell people to pray more; trust God; be the best they can be; etc. By comparison, I rarely remember anything I hear at Mass anymore, other than the constant drumbeats for money.
I listen to Joel Osteen frequently. I’ve never heard him say, “you’ll be rewarded with money for believing in God.” What he preaches is not really a prosperity Gospel at all. He does speak about radical trust in God; God caring for our needs; etc., but that’s not really a prosperity Gospel.
If I needed spiritual direction (and I probably do!), I’d go to him for advice over just about any priest I can think of, save maybe the Pope himself (certainly any I’ve known). I’d certainly expect better relationship/marriage advice from him than a priest would give me.
There’s a reason Lakewood Church is packed every weekend: He’s clearly filling some void in many people’s lives. His church is overflowing, and ours are emptying. That ought to give people some pause, if nothing else.
He’s fake? Hmmm…I think he’s a lot more genuine than a lot of priests I’ve met, and I think he speaks more to people’s hearts than any homilist I’ve ever heard.
He’s sugary and empty like cotton candy? As opposed to the forgettable homilies we hear every week at Mass, none of which ever mention real-world issues? I’ve gone to Mass weekly my whole life, and I have never, ever* once *heard a priest say, “you should not be living with a person of the opposite sex you’re not married to.” I’ve heard Joel Osteen say that. I’ve heard him basically tell people to pray more; trust God; be the best they can be; etc. By comparison, I rarely remember anything I hear at Mass anymore, other than the constant drumbeats for money.
I listen to Joel Osteen frequently. I’ve never heard him say, “you’ll be rewarded with money for believing in God.” What he preaches is not really a prosperity Gospel at all. He does speak about radical trust in God; God caring for our needs; etc., but that’s not really a prosperity Gospel.
If I needed spiritual direction (and I probably do!), I’d go to him for advice over just about any priest I can think of, save maybe the Pope himself (certainly any I’ve known). I’d certainly expect better relationship/marriage advice from him than a priest would give me.
There’s a reason Lakewood Church is packed every weekend: He’s clearly filling some void in many people’s lives. His church is overflowing, and ours are emptying. That ought to give people some pause, if nothing else.
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Dpoc41
Guest
Exactly… If he doesn’t believe in The Eucharist, why listen to Him ?
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shelby_sun
Guest
I like him for what he is. I am not sure he planned to be a big as he is; however that way he presented his message seem to be what people wanted. I think he has a lot of positive thig to say and I always feel better after listen to him. I am not into material things as I was raised around the Jesuit, so I throw that stuff out.
He seem to focus on the good in life, in people, and in God. On the subject of following God to get things, don’t many Catholics Follow God and the Church in order to be saved, to get to heaven, which to me is the greatest wealth of all.
Yes, I think Joel’s message can enhance my faith
He seem to focus on the good in life, in people, and in God. On the subject of following God to get things, don’t many Catholics Follow God and the Church in order to be saved, to get to heaven, which to me is the greatest wealth of all.
Yes, I think Joel’s message can enhance my faith
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PolarGuy
Guest
It is harsh; nasty; vicious; uncharitable; and unchristian to say things like “Joel Osteen is a heretic.”
Above and beyond the fact that it’s not true – he just believes a slightly different version of Christianity than you and I do – there’s nothing that says “Catholics are wicked, heartless, evil ****s” than their calling a Christian pastor, known for his happy demeanor and his advocacy of God’s love, a “heretic” who has nothing to offer and isn’t worth listening to, at all.
I swear, there are people on this board who make me ashamed to be a Catholic.
Above and beyond the fact that it’s not true – he just believes a slightly different version of Christianity than you and I do – there’s nothing that says “Catholics are wicked, heartless, evil ****s” than their calling a Christian pastor, known for his happy demeanor and his advocacy of God’s love, a “heretic” who has nothing to offer and isn’t worth listening to, at all.
I swear, there are people on this board who make me ashamed to be a Catholic.
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7_Sorrows
Guest
I definitely agree with what you said about the homilies. While some priests will post their homilies on their church’s website to read or listen to and reflect upon later, that doesn’t happen at my church. I always hope they will be inspiring or bring in a church teaching, but they rarely do.
I don’t watch Joel on tv very often, but to have that many people fill up your church every Sunday he must be connecting with them on some spiritual level. I don’t know how you would even begin to minister to that many people and that many families, but he seems to be doing it.
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on_the_hill
Guest
I didn’t say he was fake.
That’s maybe a stretch, but I didn’t hear much substance to his message.
Maybe he has different topic messages, but the topic of the parts of two that I heard were definitely prosperity messages. True, he didn’t mention “money” specifically, but there was a lot of talk about worldly reward and of self-reward. There was not a single message of a Christian’s obligation for good works, of fulfillment through helping other people. It was all about helping oneself.
As a motivational speaker, I give him a failing grade. He is all about turning one’s life over to God. Other motivational speakers I’m familiar with give practical advice, direction, actionable steps to take. Olsteen’s kept with one theme: you are in the palm of God’s hand. Everything will be o.k. if you believe God will make it o.k. for you.
I’m much more of a “The Good Lord helps them who help themselves.”
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CaliLobo
Guest
As a former Protestant I don’t give Joel Osteen that much credit.
True Protestants know that suffering is a part of being a Christian. True Protestants do not listen to anything TV preachers like Joel Osteen say.
Remember, TV preaching is a business. A business needs to make money. It will do so by providing the people what they want. In this case, what they want to hear.
So it’s that simple. Lakewood Church is full because Osteen tells these people what they want to hear. Not necessarily the truth.
Personally I’m sick of Joel Osteen’s Texas voice and so-called Southern hospitality. I’m sick of his perpetual positivity; is life so positive all the time for these Evangelical enterprises? I’m also even more sick of his wife–in general I just have personal prejudices against “Texas belle” and “God bless your heart” types, who act like their lives are so clean and complete but are hypocrites in reality. When combined with the Southern accent and fake friendliness, it makes me sick. I turn to channel 128 on Sirius XM, and then I immediately turn elsewhere. As a Los Angeles native who is attuned to fakeness in his hometown, it repulses me.
Are some Catholic parishes moribund? Yes. Can they learn from Protestants on how to better engage the people? Definitely yes, and I’ve posted so many times on how. But should they learn from Osteen? Heck no.
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adrift
Guest
Does one have to be a Catholic to have heretical ideas?
According to the Catholic dictionary,
So if he is baptized and has remained a Christian, he most certainly can be a heretic. I don’t see a requirement that he be Catholic.
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robwar
Guest
Well, do you have anything nice to say about the Catholic church then and the people in it? Just because someone has a big Church and it seems full doesn’t mean that they are message on. I use to be into that stuff. Joel is a soft pedal motivational speaker. Usually when he or Joyce Meyers comes up, I ususally talk about what they teach instead of their motivations or their sincerity, because that should be the focus of the conversation. If someone called a public minister like Joel Osteen a heretic is because what he teaches can be considered heresy or unorthodox or questionable or incomplete etc. Remember, Jesus didn’t always soft pedal it, He called people snakes, vipers, hypocrites. He didn’t mess around and soft pedal it to be nice.
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Dpoc41
Guest
Just got me thinking … what kind of a letter would St Paul send to the Ephesians if he heard they were listening to a preacher called Joel Osteen ? :bigyikes:
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adrift
Guest
Did you read the definition that I gave? I don’t think so or you would have known that a Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, etc, etc, could not be a heretic because they are not baptized, nor do they profess the Christian faith which is required to be a heretic.
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PolarGuy
Guest
Hmmm…Joel Osteen is awful because of his Texas Drawl and his endless positivity.
That’s just being a hater.
Look around this board. It is *filled *with:
I think we give more glory to God by recognizing the positives than by griping.
Joel Osteen has probably led more people to God than have anyone on this board (myself obviously included).
That’s just being a hater.
Look around this board. It is *filled *with:
- OCD sufferers griping about the mortal sins they think they committed, as if their problems are important to anyone else (“AITPAITAE”);
- Single women griping about how hard it is to meet men, AITPAITAE;
- Single men griping about how hard it is to meet women, AITPAITAE;
- Married people griping about how hard their lives are, period, AITPAITAE;
- People griping about stuff in general, etc.
I think we give more glory to God by recognizing the positives than by griping.
Joel Osteen has probably led more people to God than have anyone on this board (myself obviously included).
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PolarGuy
Guest
Ahh, the old “Jesus didn’t soft sell it!” statement…
…which has been used to justify being unkind, uncharitable, and generally un-Jesus-like for 2000 years.
To anyone who thinks we should really emulate Jesus by behaving exactly like him – OK, great: Offer yourself up for execution by enemies of Jesus. Publicly. Maybe travel to an ISIS-dominated area and publicly proclaim yourself a Christian ready to die for the sins of others. Then we can have this conversation. Till then…
…which has been used to justify being unkind, uncharitable, and generally un-Jesus-like for 2000 years.
To anyone who thinks we should really emulate Jesus by behaving exactly like him – OK, great: Offer yourself up for execution by enemies of Jesus. Publicly. Maybe travel to an ISIS-dominated area and publicly proclaim yourself a Christian ready to die for the sins of others. Then we can have this conversation. Till then…
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robwar
Guest
Seriously, do you have anything positive to say about your own Catholic faith and Church? You want to criticize those of us that have concern about his very limited one sided teaching but haven’t you just become the negative like you are telling us? Joel didn’t build that Church from scratch, his late father John Osteen did, Joel just inherited it. Now maybe in your own eyes, the size and number seem impressive but that isn’t a sign that these people have any more commitment or depth than us. Joel again is cotton candy, nice and sweet but one isn’t going to last long just eating it, it will make you sick.
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Patti_M
Guest
I have to agree with you robwar. As I stated in an earlier post I saw Mr. Osteen on a tv talk show & the man had literally nothing to say. His wife answered all the questions that were put to him/them. I would reference the show but I can’t remember & I was so embarressed for him.
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jessebar
Guest
May I humbly suggest books and apps of Venerable Fulton Sheen? Catholic Saint to be that most of us fail to recall was on TV for quite sometime and spoke with Charity and Clarity. It’s hard to speak the Truth with Love, but that man did so for a long time. God Bless The One, True Catholic Church Established by Christ Jesus! Viva Cristo Rey:thumbsup:
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RosslynV
Guest
I wouldn’t trust a guy who constantly smiles. Try Benny hinn. He’s a faith healer. " let the bodies hit the floor" (watch his YouTube videos to get it)
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PolarGuy
Guest
So - we’re supposed to not like Joel Osteen because:
–he smiles a lot; and/or
–he was on some unnamed TV show once and his wife spoke a lot (gee, perhaps it was his wife who was actually being interviewed?)
Those are about the poorest excuses for not liking someone I’ve ever heard.
–he smiles a lot; and/or
–he was on some unnamed TV show once and his wife spoke a lot (gee, perhaps it was his wife who was actually being interviewed?)
Those are about the poorest excuses for not liking someone I’ve ever heard.
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