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Even_So
Guest
Very nicely said
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Even_So
Guest
Or u can debate them
Also say you are about to have a meal and it happens that even Muslims are in your midst, don’t be afraid to say Grace ( you can say it silently) and the Sign of the Cross. Always giving thanks.
MJ
youtube.com/watch?v=FWpqqqZn7Kg
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Faithdancer
Guest
Quite correct; the “quote” is a myth. In fact, St. Francis was a fervent evangelist and had a particular mission to evangelize Muslims.
What he did say is that the brothers should only preach when they had received permission to do so. Chapter XVII of the Rule of 1221 also states, "“Let all the brothers, however, preach by their deeds.”Personally, I have diminishing interest in “debating” atheists, pagans, or other Christians, versus bearing simple witness. But in addition to Thomas of Celano I’ve been reading Thomas a Kempis, and he is influencing me considerably.
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Porknpie
Guest
True this. But there is nothing wrong with inviting a non-Catholic to Mass. If every Catholic family would invite a non-Catholic family to mass a few times a year, I wonder how our Church would change.Part of preaching is practicing our faith. St. James was quite adament about that.
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Della
Guest
Of course, this could work and it could backfire, too. It’s all a matter of being open to opportunities as they arise rather than looking for ways to impose ourselves on others who may not be interested or disposed to receive such invitations. This is why prayer is so important–it aids us in discerning what to say and when to say it because it opens us to the promptings of the Holy Spirit.True this. But there is nothing wrong with inviting a non-Catholic to Mass. If every Catholic family would invite a non-Catholic family to mass a few times a year, I wonder how our Church would change.
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Faithful_Seeker
Guest
I don’t know Joel well enough to be critical of him. I also do not know anything about the amount of money he has. He used to be very popular, I would guess he still is? When he first began years ago, I caught some of his sermons on tv and would agree he is a power of positive thinking guy and likable. I generally lean positive myself, rather than negative, a lot of good can come from it. I don’t recall ever hearing him speak about anything other than remaining positive though and don’t know if he still preaches in the same way. I wasn’t sure if he preaches the prosperity gospel or not, some say he does.
I think he was correct that most get their religion from parents but there are exceptions. Although my parents believed in God and had a bible, we did not go to Church. As a young child my only experience with church was when I’d ask a neighbor if I could tag along to the ‘Church of God’ they attended. It was rare for me to ever ask, I didn’t go very much at all. I was never comfortable with what the preacher there said but I do know there were a couple of good Christians there who were great examples for me that I’ll never forget.
Maybe all Joel meant is that even though many Christians want to share their joy with others, not all should debate so we have fewer misunderstandings. Not all of us, myself included, have the ability to accurately reflect our beliefs in a succinct way others can fully understand.
I’m glad for anyone who is on a Christian journey. We all have to start somewhere and not all of us are brought up in a religion where we end up, we have to sometimes find our own way and experience different religions in our search.
For me, I feel blessed my journey brought me where I am most at home, where I can feel, sense and recognize the presence of Christ-----The Catholic Church.
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Faithful_Seeker
Guest
Several years ago, while visiting a friend, a girl I met and was friendly with couldn’t go with us to our planned event until she attended Mass one evening. I asked if I could tag along as I was interested and had never even seen the inside of a Catholic Church but had always been curious. Of course I was instructed not to receive communion, and everything that was done was explained to me if I had a question. It was a beautiful experience for me.True this. But there is nothing wrong with inviting a non-Catholic to Mass. If every Catholic family would invite a non-Catholic family to mass a few times a year, I wonder how our Church would change.
It was not until years later and lots of struggling with myself that God lead me to the Catholic Church and I became a member. The girl who didn’t know me very well but took me as her guest one evening played a big role in my eventually becoming a member in 1983. I wish she knew that. I haven’t seen or spoken with her at all since joining the Church but I pray for her regularly, for giving me my first glimpse of where God is present.
So I would definitely agree that if someone asks to attend with you, please consider taking them along with you. God can work through any of us, you just never know, even if it takes awhile like it did with me.
I’m not sure about taking someone who doesn’t ask though or encouraging someone to go who seems to be against the Church. I’d suggest someone to pray about that before doing it.
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MartinJordan
Guest
Christ didn’t pronounce debate as a criteria. Just that we should not be ashamed of him. Plus I want to be careful of being self righteous. Unless I attained perfection in Christ, alas I’ve got a long way to go.
MJ
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Catholic_farmer
Guest
The only debating I do with people who are not Christians is to debunk their misconceptions about Catholicism. I try to remain calm and charitable in my responses, no matter hostile the other side gets. I explain Catholicism, or Christianity in general, to build a bridge of communication. I am not trying to convert during these exchanges. I am only trying to dispel myths. If it goes to the next level, during a different conversation, and the individual is open to hearing more, well, now you have built a bridge and showed them that you are someone who doesn’t get easily offended. Now, they know they can trust that you are open to their questions. Perhaps I am not taking someone with me to mass after two conversations, but, if I have softened their view of Catholicism or Christianity, then I have accomplished something. Just see how many hearts were softened by our Holy Father when he visited! We need to keep it up.
So, in short, I disagree with this TV preacher. God never gives up on us, so why should we give up on others? I think one important point to make about prosperity preachers is that they have a tendency to see the value of a person by the size of their wallet, so dismissing the ‘difficult catch’ or ‘little fish’ seems like something they would do. We should be just as happy to convert a homeless person as a rich person. And we should be just as willing to reach out to the hostile person as to the willing listener. Sometimes those who are most hostile are most in need of God’s love and mercy.
So, in short, I disagree with this TV preacher. God never gives up on us, so why should we give up on others? I think one important point to make about prosperity preachers is that they have a tendency to see the value of a person by the size of their wallet, so dismissing the ‘difficult catch’ or ‘little fish’ seems like something they would do. We should be just as happy to convert a homeless person as a rich person. And we should be just as willing to reach out to the hostile person as to the willing listener. Sometimes those who are most hostile are most in need of God’s love and mercy.
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TonyBS
Guest
God bless all the saints throughout History, without them I do not think that the World would be as creative as it is now. They have all fed our Love and Creativity.
What can be noted in History is that the Early Saints of all religions were likewise treated upon accepting a New Faith.
All of them suffered persecution by the so claimed people of knowledge that had debated the meaning of their Holy Books for centuries, but still did not understand or grasp the intent.
Thus to debate or discuss the in and outs of both positions, has its merits as long as both are still gaining from the exchange. One a door is closed, to continue the debate would most likely mean both are wrong.
God Bless and Regards Tony
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TonyBS
Guest
This poses an interesting observation that leads to a questionQuite correct; the “quote” is a myth. In fact, St. Francis was a fervent evangelist and had a particular mission to evangelize Muslims.
Personally, I have diminishing interest in “debating” atheists, pagans, or other Christians, versus bearing simple witness. But in addition to Thomas of Celano I’ve been reading Thomas a Kempis, and he is influencing me considerably.
In my observation of humanity, I would see that life lived by the vast Majority of followers of the Worlds Religions are more prone to “Preach by their deeds”. To me All the Holy Books confirm this in one way or another. Mostly we are bombarded by the radical aspect of Religions, most likely as it is so called “Newsworthy”.
Thus the summary of the observation would be, if the world took up this practice as a whole, we would all be proving our religion by Deed, thus cementing for all time the Truth of them all
The question would be, would there still be a need for a debate?
God Bless and Regards Tony
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Porknpie
Guest
Of course, this could work and it could backfire, too. It’s all a matter of being open to opportunities as they arise rather than looking for ways to impose ourselves on others who may not be interested or disposed to receive such invitations. This is why prayer is so important–it aids us in discerning what to say and when to say it because it opens us to the promptings of the Holy Spirit.
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Porknpie
Guest
Wonderful example of the power of bringing someone with us to Mass. This includes fallen away Catholics. The Holy Spirit does the converting but can use us to plant seeds.
It should not be a dichotomy: prayer OR acting. We are to do both. And one way that I’m convinced this is and act that we can do… is to invite others to Mass.
Don’t look for immediately miracles but yours is not the first story that I’ve heard how a seed was planted by attending Mass and how it grew over time.
Ah, the 80’s…"the spirit is a moving, all over, all over, this land"
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