Joel Osteen

[Tablefor9]

Tablefor9, please explain EXACTLY what Joel Osteen is “telling people that they want to hear.”

**Let’s see; anytime we hear Joel & Victoria Osteen it’s all about how God wants to prosper you (health, wealth, good things are coming, just believe, there is no place for suffering in their gospel.) Certainly, it’s a stretch to compare what they promise to Jesus’ “These things I have spoken to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you shall have distress: but have confidence, I have overcome the world.” From John 16. Also, while the Osteens may hold orthodox views on homosexuality or other issues, you won’t hear doctrine preached by Osteen. It’s all about encouragement; you can overcome, the power of God is in you, etc. it’s about helping people feel uplifted, whether they are living close to Jesus or not. And that, friend, is a dangerously false gospel.
**

for sources, let’s start here at the Christian Post

**And [here, at Pulpit and PenURL]]("http://pulpitandpen.org/2014/07/18/...snt-like-jesus-a-twitter-survey-of-joelosteen)

And here, from Western Journalism

And here, from Catholiceducation.org

The truth isn’t a numbers racket, or like Vegas–get tushes in seats. A gospel that doesn’t work in the slums of NOLA or subsaharan Africa is not the true gospel, it’s a suburbanite self-motivational craze.

**

 

[Micosil]

I LOVE Joel Osteen. I listen to him frequently and think his message is worth hearing.

Slimy? Now why would someone say that about a person whose message is largely one of “trust God and live an upstanding life.” ? Further, do you ever hear anything like his sermons in a Catholic Church? Nope.

Look, folks, there’s a reason catholic pews are emptying and Lakewood church is growing, namely, Osteen is giving people something they need and aren’t getting elsewhere. Rather than trash him or his congregants, Catholics ought to be asking “what is he doing right, that we’re doing wrong?”

Tablefor9, please explain EXACTLY what Joel Osteen is “telling people that they want to hear.”

His sermon this morning was “how we should pray big prayers” and not limit our petitions to merely mundane things. That’s hardly “what people want to hear.”

His church is packed; he’s written multiple bestsellers. His “night of hope” events pack large arenas. Point is: he seems to rather have an awful lot to say, rather than simply preaching a prosperity gospel, for example. Further, his messages seem to resonate with a lot of people.

I find it noteworthy that someone said, “I’ve never heard him but I hate the prosperity gospel.” It’s noteworthy because the poster admitted to never having heard the man.

I reiterate, Catholics should ask what he’s doing right that we’re doing wrong.

Casilda, if you’re correct, then why are Catholic parishes emptying? You – and anyone else – can’t really intellectually just blame the Joel Osteens of the world, as he is clearly giving people something they aren’t getting elsewhere. People wouldn’t buy his books, attend his events, etc., if he was really spiritually vacuous.

Look, if you hear the man preach, then compare his sermons to the same tired “this is what we hear today in the readings, yada yada yada”, with no applicability to the real world, that we get in a Catholic homily, and which we forget the minute we walk out the door, you can’t really intellectually compare the quality of the 2: I’m sorry, but that’s a reality, and Osteen is a very gifted preacher.

Do I think the Catholic Church has the fullness of faith? Yes. The Mass has many aspects that a Protestant service can’t duplicate. That said, Osteen is clearly giving something spiritual to his congregants that just doesn’t appear to be existent in Catholic churches these days. As to what that something is, it may be many things, but pure snake oil it isn’t.

“Cutting out half the gospel”? Which “half” are you referring to? That smacks of the same “I’ve never heard him but I don’t like him” stuff that some others seem to adopt, and it really doesn’t impress anyone.

I know of Joel Osteen, but never heard him preach, so I won’t comment on whatever he says since I don’t personally know what it is that he says. However, I can’t really say I agree with you. The reason Catholic pews are emptying may or may not be due to Joel Osteen and his ilk (other megachurch pastors), but whatever the reason may be, we need to remember one thing … Luke 22:19:

Then he took the bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which will be given for you; do this in memory of me.”

Despite all their uplifting, motivating sermons, all the bombastic theatricalities, the comfortable chairs … does Joel Osteen bring Jesus Christ physically and substantially into the world? Does Joel Osteen do what Jesus commanded, as recorded in Luke (and other places)? If you answer that question, you’ll know why I’m a Catholic catechumen, when I could be sitting in the comfortable chairs of a megachurch (not that there’s any I know of where I live, but you get me.)

 

[WJeffrey]

Donald Trump puts fannies in seats and has people ready to send him money. He even mentions the bible His message is making everything great again.

I don’t see much difference between the two.

I think I will look elsewhere for my spiritual nourishment. I grew out of peanut butter and fluff in the third grade.

I want to go to heaven. I am certain that Donald Trump and a televangelist are not the answer.

I:bigyikes:

 

[PolarGuy]

Jesus said He came that we might have life and have it to the fullest. Yes, that’s a bit different from the standard joyless, miserable catholic “everyone has to spend their lives suffering” attitude, but it’s no less biblical. I don’t see how giving people hope is bad - as opposed to the catholic mantra of giving people guilt and suffering.

Further, many of the comments leveled at Osteen aren’t applicable to literally any other church or faith, yet the level of hate out on him - “he’s annoying;” “I don’t like his voice,” or whatever, displays no level of introspection, as if all things catholic are always perfect.

The same is true of blaming the congregants for Catholic Churches emptying. It’d be better if there was some level of introspection about why that is happening. There’s none of that on thread and very little of it on this board, for that matter.

And BTW, wjeffrey, aren’t you the man who, on another thread, was defending giving money to literally every beggar who asked, even if you knew they would buy drugs or alcohol with the money? Anything Osteen does seems far better than that…

 

[Belshazzar]

Some are hoh and you can hear their TVs at the desk. You aren’t missing much not listening to him. I promise.

What’s “hoh?”
Huh?

ha ha.

 

[jimcav]

Jesus said He came that we might have life and have it to the fullest. Yes, that’s a bit different from the standard joyless, miserable catholic “everyone has to spend their lives suffering” attitude, but it’s no less biblical. I don’t see how giving people hope is bad - as opposed to the catholic mantra of giving people guilt and suffering.

I believe there is a historical aspect to be seen here.

The suffering you speak of is because Catholics did suffer terribly for their faith almost throughout her history. Go back to the Roman times, the Dark Ages, medieval times, The Crusades and you will see how Catholics suffered for their faith and beliefs. It’s ingrained in us. Even in America, one only has to go back a century to see Catholics suffering to practice their faith.

It’s easy for the Joel Osteens and other televangelists to promise happiness, wealth and health, because by the time of the reformation, life was far easier for a Christian. The reformers have little suffering in their history and little even in their doctrines compared to Catholics. They seem to have scant knowledge of Christian or Church history, which IMHO, makes their theology to simplistic at times.

That said, I feel terrible for you that you have not found any happiness in your faith. It’s certainly there, but Jesus said we would suffer for Him, and there is no changing that no matter what Mr. Osteen says.

The same is true of blaming the congregants for Catholic Churches emptying. It’d be better if there was some level of introspection about why that is happening. There’s none of that on thread and very little of it on this board, for that matter.

Your question was answered by Tablefor9 long ago, when he/she quoted 2 Timothy 4:3, but you didn’t respond to it -

*For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears *

 

[Micosil]

Jesus said He came that we might have life and have it to the fullest. Yes, that’s a bit different from the standard joyless, miserable catholic “everyone has to spend their lives suffering” attitude, but it’s no less biblical. I don’t see how giving people hope is bad - as opposed to the catholic mantra of giving people guilt and suffering.

http://a.deviantart.net/avatars/s/e/seriously-plz.jpg?1 I really don’t know how many Catholics you know, but most of the Catholics I know, both in real life and on this forum are joyful, normal, everyday people. Hope is one of the theological virtues, I don’t know why you think Catholicism lacks that. That Catholicism emphasizes more so than some other Christian churches and denominations the reality of human suffering, sure. But not because we’re masochists, or sadists; it’s a part of life, our Lord went through it, and sooner or later, so does everyone else. The Church doesn’t call everyone to be a consecrated hermit, or to wear a cilice/hairshirt.

Further, many of the comments leveled at Osteen aren’t applicable to literally any other church or faith, yet the level of hate out on him - “he’s annoying;” “I don’t like his voice,” or whatever, displays no level of introspection, as if all things catholic are always perfect.

Like I said, I don’t really know Olsteen or his preaching, which is why I refrained from commenting on it.

The same is true of blaming the congregants for Catholic Churches emptying. It’d be better if there was some level of introspection about why that is happening. There’s none of that on thread and very little of it on this board, for that matter.

It’s happening not because of Catholic teachings, but in spite of them. People are gregarious, human beings are social animals. They like comfortable chairs, and entertainment, they like feeling good. Everyone does. But quite often, these things are chosen after ignoring, or turning off the rational part of the brain that demands truth.

 

[PolarGuy]

Tablefor9 didn’t answer anything, so there was nothing for me to respond to.

As to Catholics being joyless and miserable, I’m sorry, look around this board: it reeks of “woe is me” and, worse, obsession with sin and whether the most mundane acts - including enjoyment of life - are not merely sins but mortal sins at that. The moral theology board’s denizens frequently look like people who need psychological assistance, such is their level of depression and sadness.

Will there be much to suffer in life? Sure. But the trashing of Joel Osteen on grounds that he’s positive and preaches a gospel of hope reflects, as I said, a joyless, miserable existence, and that speaks more to those who trash him than anything he says.

 

[Tablefor9]

Tablefor9 didn’t answer anything, so there was nothing for me to respond to.

As to Catholics being joyless and miserable, I’m sorry, look around this board: it reeks of “woe is me” and, worse, obsession with sin and whether the most mundane acts - including enjoyment of life - are not merely sins but mortal sins at that. The moral theology board’s denizens frequently look like people who need psychological assistance, such is their level of depression and sadness.

Will there be much to suffer in life? Sure. But the trashing of Joel Osteen on grounds that he’s positive and preaches a gospel of hope reflects, as I said, a joyless, miserable existence, and that speaks more to those who trash him than anything he says.

Erm…how about in post 21?

People come to this board for prayer and help, with genuine questions about how best to follow God. They do not deserve to be characterized as mental health patients because everyone has issues and trials in this life. It doesn’t mean they aren’t living with abundant joy because they aren’t sneezing rainbows and unicorns online.

God does want us to have joy and peace. Many times, however, people get the bliss of heaven confused with the reality of life on earth in a fallen world. That’s dangerously poor theology because then when people aren’t moving to a bigger house with a newer BMW they wonder what they did wrong and why God failed them. It isn’t God who failed, it was the person preaching the “God wants you to be rich” who didn’t realize that God uses the circumstances (yes, even poverty or illness or living amongst war torn countries) to make us HOLY not necessarily HAPPY. JOY is not HAPPINESS.

Edit to add: I still want to know how the gospel that Joel Osteen preaches fits with Blessed Mother Teresa and the vibrant, joyful Christians living in wretched conditions in Sub-Saharan Africa. I’m not mic dropping, I’ll wait.

 

[jimcav]

As to Catholics being joyless and miserable, I’m sorry, look around this board: it reeks of “woe is me” and, worse, obsession with sin and whether the most mundane acts - including enjoyment of life - are not merely sins but mortal sins at that. The moral theology board’s denizens frequently look like people who need psychological assistance, such is their level of depression and sadness.

Well ,we should be obsessed with sin and it’s eradication of it.

Modern society and many of our evangelical brothers do not talk much about sinning these days, and it seemingly plays no role in their salvation due to once saved, always saved theology. A devout Catholic, who is mature in the faith and well read, knows how deadly sinning is and how much it offends our Lord and will want to do everything they can to keep it out of their lives.

Being sin-free is what brings true happiness.

 

[WJeffrey]

Jesus said He came that we might have life and have it to the fullest. Yes, that’s a bit different from the standard joyless, miserable catholic “everyone has to spend their lives suffering” attitude, but it’s no less biblical. I don’t see how giving people hope is bad - as opposed to the catholic mantra of giving people guilt and suffering.

Further, many of the comments leveled at Osteen aren’t applicable to literally any other church or faith, yet the level of hate out on him - “he’s annoying;” “I don’t like his voice,” or whatever, displays no level of introspection, as if all things catholic are always perfect.

The same is true of blaming the congregants for Catholic Churches emptying. It’d be better if there was some level of introspection about why that is happening. There’s none of that on thread and very little of it on this board, for that matter.

And BTW, wjeffrey, aren’t you the man who, on another thread, was defending giving money to literally every beggar who asked, even if you knew they would buy drugs or alcohol with the money? Anything Osteen does seems far better than that…

No. That is the exact opposite of my comment. I was the person saying that giving money to a junkie is roughly the equivalent of handing a loaded gun to an extremely depressed person.

Any money that you give to a junkie is going straight to his drug dealer. If you want to do something charitable for a junkie, buy him or her a sandwich or give them a $5 McDonald’s gift card.

But Thanks for reading.

Since July, attendance at my Catholic Church is up close to 25% and all of our local Seminaries are full for the first time in 20 years. One in Boston is building more new housing. The Catholic Church in Massachusetts where I live is doing very well. :thumbsup:

We don’t have televangelists here. If there is a superchurch, I have no idea where it is.

I prefer my homily from people who are not multi-millionaires based on my tithe.

 

[adawgj]

I never really cared for mega church pastors after watching a documentary about how the money flows in their churches. If they didn’t have huge houses for themselves I would have reconsidered.

 

[Gorgias]

As to Catholics being joyless and miserable, I’m sorry, look around this board: it reeks of “woe is me” and, worse, obsession with sin and whether the most mundane acts - including enjoyment of life - are not merely sins but mortal sins at that.

Well, to be fair, your analysis only works if the participants of this board are representative of Catholics in general. Otherwise, you’re judging Catholics by a sample set that doesn’t give you the whole picture. It’s kind of like judging football greatness by watching the Cleveland Browns.

But the trashing of Joel Osteen on grounds that he’s positive and preaches a gospel of hope reflects, as I said, a joyless, miserable existence, and that speaks more to those who trash him than anything he says.

No, I don’t think that this is what’s being said here. Rather, the criticism I’m reading is that Osteen’s preaching doesn’t accurately reflect Jesus’ teaching in a holistic way.

Mind if I ask a question? If Osteen is preaching a ‘gospel of hope’, what is it that he’s preaching hope in? That is to say, what does Osteen’s preaching make you hope for?

Looking at your posts, you seem to be making a number of claims, and I’d like to make sure I understand what you’re saying. Are you saying that it’s Osteen’s style that’s appealing? Or is it his message?

In addition, you seem to be asserting that all preaching is the same. That’s just not the case: Christian preachers in varying traditions are all doing something different, and they’re doing it in a whole variety of liturgical contexts. Some are preaching from a single Scripture passage, while others preach from snippets here and snippets there. Some preach intellectual, academic messages, while others preach solely from the impromptu inspiration of the Spirit. Some preaching is the bulk of the worship experience, while other preaching is only one part of a greater liturgy.

As it turns out, Catholic preaching fulfills a particular purpose that’s different than that found in most Protestant liturgical contexts: it attempts to bring together the day’s Scripture readings, the lived situation of the congregation in a particular time and place, and the sacrifice of the Eucharist. In this way, Catholic preaching is meant to speak not only to the Word of God or the Eucharist, but also to its place in our lives in the here and now. (Do all Catholic preachers do a good job achieving this ideal? Of course not. But that’s a different issue.)

The Gospel of Christ – in a Catholic context – promises eternal bliss in heaven. Not success or happiness or riches here on earth, but rather, joy in heaven. Why does this not resonate with Americans? We want it now; we want it here; and we want it in the way we want it. Osteen, I would assert, promises exactly these things – and that’s why he’s popular. His popularity, as it were, comes from the way that he deviates from the Gospel of Christ, not from the way that he preaches Christ’s message. Don’t get me wrong: he does mention Jesus (now and again); but Christ isn’t the center of his message. At the heart of it, that seems to be the biggest problem with his message. In Osteen’s preaching world, it’s not about Christ, but about earthly happiness.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

What’s “hoh?”
Huh?

ha ha.

hard of hearing. LOL

 

[adamhovey1988]

When I see folks defending Olsteen, I feel as though I may be losing my sanity.

 

[PolarGuy]

That’s rather an uncharitable thing to say, Adam. He may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but then again neither are the joyless and legalistic Catholics all over this board.

 

[WJeffrey]

That’s rather an uncharitable thing to say, Adam. He may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but then again neither are the joyless and legalistic Catholics all over this board.

You don’t find it troubling that a man of God is worth at least $100 Million dollars based on your tithe?

I can understand a person deciding that they think the Catholic Church is wrong. I don’t understand a person giving money to subsidize private airplanes, gaudy watches, plastic surgery, and $5,000 suits. The money you are giving to this TV celebrity isn’t even going to a religious denomination. It is going to subsidize a narcissistic family’s lavish lifestyle. Don’t you feel cheated?

 

[WJeffrey]

That’s rather an uncharitable thing to say, Adam. He may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but then again neither are the joyless and legalistic Catholics all over this board.

Typically, shallow people find joy in another person telling them that they are “good enough smart enough and dog-gonit people like you.” I’d rather focus on continuing my happy life in heaven. :getholy: :heaven:

 

[PolarGuy]

Wjeffrey, I re-read your other posts and you absolutely did defend giving money to literally everyone beggar who asks; you mentioned limiting giving to “twenties” when you knew it would be used for alcohol or drugs. Other posters asked you to send your money to them! Thus your posts here don’t water, and frankly appear filled with deceit.

Further, the cult of hating on Osteen is just that: hate. The whole “he’s had plastic surgery!” Is just a continuation of all the rumors about the man: for years people said he was gay (as if that would be reason enough to hate on him; it’s not).

 

[WJeffrey]

Wjeffrey, I re-read your other posts and you absolutely did defend giving money to literally everyone beggar who asks; you mentioned limiting giving to “twenties” when you knew it would be used for alcohol or drugs. Other posters asked you to send your money to them! Thus your posts here don’t water, and frankly appear filled with deceit.

Why are you lying? Feel free to post everyone of my quotes.