Joel Osteen's Prosperity Gospel

[Alexius]

Please let us try to remember not to judge a book by its cover.

You’re right, but I’m not sure I want to open that book…

 

[GOP]

That’s a new one for me.

 

[GOP]

As far as the “cancelling Christmas,” I never heard about that.

I don’t care for Joel Osteen’s false teachings, but your story I’ll take as you suggest.

And about “cancelling Christmas”, it was not cancelling Christmas per say, but he canceled Christmas services in his church because Christmas fall on a Sunday. It was all over the news. I’m not sure if he finally did cancel the services for that Sunday or not (because of the hub - bub), but that was the plan.

 

[Jeanette_L]

I don’t know Joel Osteen’s heart, but my guess is that he genuinely feels he is doing God’s will, has been led by God into this particular ministry, has been blessed by God in being obedient and stepping out in faith to committ to huge dreams and all has worked out for him, so far.

And because all has worked out for him so far, he believes that anyone who has his kind of dreams, can achieve them and that this is part and parcel of having a saving faith in Christ.

I think he truly believes this and it is why he preaches it. Unfortunately, even if there is a kournel of truth in some of his teachings, he is leaving out the most important message in the Gospel of Christ, which is eternal salvation through repentance and a life lived in obedience to Christ and all He commands.

It is very easy to be misled out there in the huge world of “Christianity”, many spirits pulling people in many different directions, each looking for and finding what soothes them.

We can only pray for all of them.

 

[AlegreFe]

Can you really call his - well, whatever it is - a church?

didn’t he “cancel” Christmas services there last year so everybody could “spend Christmas at home”??

:whacky:

Don’t most Protestant churches cancel Christmas services when Christmas falls on a Sunday? I’m not sure but that’s what I hear from many of them.

You’ll never see a Catholic Church cancelling Christmas Mass, especially if it falls on a Sunday. Since the Catholic Church has Mass every single day we will always have a Christmas Mass.

I’ve heard of many protestant churches cancel Sunday service because of weather this past Sunday, but not one Catholic Church canceled Mass because of weather.

 

[AlegreFe]

Wow, you guys are being very judgemental. None of us know what is in his heart.

I don’t think you can easily say that we are being judgemental because we are only stating the truth of what we see and hear and those are his fruits and that’s what matters with Jesus.

Of course we don’t know what is in his heart but why preach prosperity when that is not in the bible. Why does he call himself a Christian when he is not imitating Christ? He is getting in way over his head with his health and wealth message. I particularily take a dislike to his preaching because of my sister. She thinks the answer to her prayers is more money because she is broke. The last thing she needs is to hear this kind of preaching. She needs to hear some good Catholic preaching on what it means to suffer in life. She needs to offer up all her sufferings to Jesus Christ and completely Trust in Jesus. She needs to atone for her past sins as she has not done that yet; she only thinks she has.

Jesus said to rebuke the sinner so I wouldn’t call it being judgemental. We are merely warning all the good Christians here who really want to follow Christ.

Believe me, if I knew of any Catholic that was doing this I would be saying the same thing. So please don’t think we are saying this just because he is protestant. There are some good protestant preachers out there that have a better message than this guy does.

 

[AlegreFe]

…but, i have not listened to him in a long time. so i do not know what it is like now.

Still the same but worse now because he has more and more people joining him and listening to him at home in their pj’s as someone else here stated.

Mordocai:

health and wellness gospel is not The Gospel, and so i liken teachers of similar mind more as a false prophet than i do from God. even a false prophet can feel they are from God, and many times will preach much truth.
but the devil will spit 99% truth if only to pull you into hell with the 1%.
(emphasis added)

This is so very true! Father Corapi says this too! But I don’t think the ratio is the same with Joel. He seems to preach only 20% truth and the rest is lies. Or perhaps the only thing that is truth in his preaching is that Jesus Christ exists.

Mordocai:

all in all though, I’m sure he’s a fine Christian man. but I hope our Lord brings him into the Church so as to be a strong witness to all his devotees.

Wouldn’t that be great if we see Joel convert to the Catholic faith one day! Let us pray for him today and everyday.

 

[AlegreFe]

It’s not a matter of being grateful he’s bringing people into a church.

(emphasis added)

I wouldn’t say that he’s bringing people into the church. The Body of Christ is not about prosperity, wealth and health. You can’t just join any church and say you are part of the Body of Christ if that “church” is teaching that if you are rich you have favor with the Lord.

And NO we are not being judgemental. We are only stating facts in what we see and hear.

 

[AlegreFe]

But a friend of mine told me a story about a MUTUAL friend of ours (so this is not a “friend of a friend” type story) how, when she was working at a resturant in Houston (I’m originally from Houston), Osteen came to the resturant and parked in a handicapped spot. She asked him to move, but he refused to because he had “favor with the Lord.” She had been invited to go with a friend to Lakewood Church (Osteen’s Church) the next day. In his sermon, he apparently told a story about how God always finds him the best parking places.

-]What a stingy, cocky, ungrateful, pompous,…/-]
I better hold my tongue on this one. http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i85/Alegre-Fe/Emoticons/Quiet.gif
I’ll have to go to confession… too late.

ABostonCatholic:

Like I said, I never confirmed this with my other friend, so I don’t know how accurate the story is. But I strongly dislike him. I knew people (mostly non-Catholics) who left their home churches (where they would probably receive a better Christian message) to go to Lakewood. These mega-churches are like the Wal-marts of religion: running the local churches out of business.

(emphasis added)

I never thought of it that way, but I like this saying, I’ll have to use it some time.

ABostonCatholic:

Furthermore, since their services are on TV, many people just stay at home and “watch” church in their pajamas.

Yep, that’s pretty sad that you can’t get someone to get up and actually go to church.

Let’s pray for Joel Osteen.

 

[AlegreFe]

ALLFORHIM:

Please let us try to remember not to judge a book by its cover.

You’re right, but I’m not sure I want to open that book…

We don’t have to open that book because he opened it for us in what he preaches. We are judging him by his fruits. We just want to warn everyone of the false teaching that comes from his mouth.

 

[deb1]

I indirectly blame him for my mother not contacting me before her death.

There have been times before when I have commented in posts that my mother was abusive, very narcissistic and had an undiagnosed mental disorder. There seemed to be two different sides to my mother’s personality. She could be a very loving, generous person or she could be a complete selfish jerk and a melodrama queen.

When she first started listening to Olsen, I was happy. His message seemed to resonate with her. Some of the resentment that my mother carried around for sometimes imaginary injustices done by her relatives seemed to melt away. Granted I was concerned by her belief in name it and claim it gospel.

When my hubby got stationed in NC so we could care for my sick mother I was hoping to start fresh with her. Instead she pushed everyone away, argued incessantly with me and starting to verbally abuse my kids.She told my eight year old daughter that she was going to hell because she didn’t help pick up laundry.

My last phone conversation, six months before her death, with my mother was my telling her that I would not allow her to abuse my kids as she did me but that she could call me if she needed me. I didn’t mean for us to stop talking but my mother got very, very angry when I suggested that she get psychiatric help so that we could have a better relationship.

Six months later when my sister, brother and I cleaned up her trailer after her death, we found all sorts of little yellow memo pads in which she wrote very sad notes that read something like, “I Know, God, that if I believe my daughter will walk through that door tomorrow.” She also kept records of notes she took on Olsteens discussions.

Apparently my mother had been told that she was dying but she didn’t contact us because she thought that somehow God would bring us kids to her. She also had little memos claiming that God would cure her if she had enough faith.

I’m not a big fan of Olsen’s.

 

[Sacristan2006]

Whats scary is I know many individuals that love listening to his message of materialism.

 

[lizaanne]

My DH and I volunteer a great deal at Saint Michael’s Media as many of you know (see my sig) - we were SO excited when we heard that the ratings for **The One True Faith **were higher in the Detroit market than the Joel Osteen show!! How cool is that!! More people watching Catholic programming than whatever it is he’s doing - we were so excited to hear that!

~Liza

 

[Little_Mary]

I don’t care for Joel Osteen’s false teachings, but your story I’ll take as you suggest.

And about “cancelling Christmas”, it was not cancelling Christmas per say, but he canceled Christmas services in his church because Christmas fall on a Sunday. It was all over the news. I’m not sure if he finally did cancel the services for that Sunday or not (because of the hub - bub), but that was the plan.

Yes, that is what I was referring to. It is a huge reminder of how empty the protestant faith is. Can you imaging cancelling Christmas Masses??

 

[heisenburg]

It is a huge reminder of how empty the protestant faith is.

I’m no fan of protestantism, but this statement is still far from accurate. They are (for the most part) Christians. With some notable exceptions like the one in question, Most Protestants do follow Christ as best as they know how and as best as they have been taught. Do i think they are missing large chunks? Yes, but they are far from empty…

Most traditional denoms have just as many issues with this theology as catholics do.

In Christ

 

[Little_Mary]

I’m no fan of protestantism, but this statement is still far from accurate. They are (for the most part) Christians. With some notable exceptions like the one in question, Most Protestants do follow Christ as best as they know how and as best as they have been taught. Do i think they are missing large chunks? Yes, but they are far from empty…

Most traditional denoms have just as many issues with this theology as catholics do.

In Christ

Yes, I was referring to the fact that they do not have the Eucharist.

 

[AlegreFe]

My DH and I volunteer a great deal at Saint Michael’s Media as many of you know (see my sig)

I downloaded some shows.

lizaanne:

we were SO excited when we heard that the ratings for **The One True Faith **were higher in the Detroit market than the Joel Osteen show!! How cool is that!! More people watching Catholic programming than whatever it is he’s doing - we were so excited to hear that!

Yes, that is GREAT to know. Perhaps many have gotten that his teachings are not all they’re cracked up to be.

I still pray for Joel though. He really needs our prayers and he doesn’t even know that he needs them. But somehow I have a feeling that sooner or later he’ll realize that something is missing from his “christian” life. When that time comes, I hope he doesn’t fall too hard. But we all have to carry our crosses. I’ll continue to pray for him.

 

[lizaanne]

I downloaded some shows.

Thanks Sandy!! Season two is on its way out in podcast - my DH, SMM’s webmaster, is working his tushie off trying to get them done, so keep checking back!

~Liza

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

I wish I had a time machine, I would push all those “faith” preachers in it, and send them back to talk with the apostles during perscution.

Basically, this prosperity myth can grow in a culture like ours in the US where even our poor live like kings compared to the rich in many parts of the world. This mythology would not fly in cultures where christians are perscuted for their faith.

 

[Sacristan2006]

Here is an article I found written by a Presbyterian who realized the wrongs on the Prosperity gospel message.

Repenting of the Health and Wealth Gospel​

I have a confession to make: I just discovered that I have always believed in the “health and wealth gospel.” As a lifelong conservative Presbyterian, this discovery naturally came as a bit of a shock. Now mind you, I didn’t realize that I believed in it. In fact, I have always been quick to denounce it as a heresy. But God recently showed me that I believed in it nonetheless. Perhaps you do, too. At its core, the health and wealth gospel teaches that God rewards increasing levels of faith with greater amounts of wealth. When stated this way, the health and wealth gospel is easy to reject on a host of biblical grounds, and I have always refuted it in my teaching. Still, I recently discovered to my horror that at some—albeit unconscious—level I have internalized this heretical gospel’s central teaching. Let me explain. About two months ago I was walking with some [fellow] staff members [from the Chalmers Center for Economic Development at Covenant College, Lookout Mountain, Ga.] through one of Nairobi’s slums. The conditions were simply inhumane. People lived in “huts” constructed out of cardboard boxes. Foul smells gushed out of open ditches carrying human and animal excrement. I had a hard time keeping my balance as I continually slipped on oozy brown substances that I hoped were mud but feared were something else. Flies feasted on people’s open sores. Children picked through garbage dumps looking for anything of value.

As we walked deeper and deeper into the slum, my sense of despair increased. “This is what hell must be like, for this place is completely Godforsaken,” I thought to myself.

Then to my amazement, right there amongst the dung, I heard the sweet sound of a familiar hymn. “Must be foreign missionaries conducting an open air service,” I rationalized. As we turned the corner my eyes landed on the hut from which the music bellowed. Every Sunday, 30 Kenyan slum dwellers cram into this 10-foot-by- 20-foot “sanctuary” to worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It wasn’t pretty, but it was a church, a church made up of some of the poorest people on earth. But it soon became apparent that these folks’ economic inferiority did not imply their spiritual inferiority. For example, on paper, I have always believed in the doctrine of God’s sovereignty. Yet when I heard these folks, who have no access to healthcare, call on Jehovah Jireh to heal them, I realized that their level of trust in God’s sovereignty far surpassed my own. And I suspect that when these folks pray the fourth petition of the Lord’s prayer—Give us this day our daily bread—their minds do not wander as mine so often does.

And then there was John, the 22-year-old worship leader who miraculously managed to get through high school but could not afford to go to college. Filled with compassion for the children in the slum, he started a school in the church in which he personally teaches 50 kids spanning all the elementary grades. When I asked how he was supported financially, he just smiled and said, “There is nobody to pay me a salary. I just trust the Lord to meet my needs.” I am not fit to carry John’s shoes.

Yep, right down there in the bowels of hell is this Kenyan church, filled with spiritual giants who do not know where the next meal is coming from. I was shocked to find a vibrant church in this setting, which shows that—at some level—I believed in the health and wealth gospel. Perhaps you do, too.

Think about it. If anybody suggests to me that the poor are poor because they are necessarily less spiritual than the rest of us—which is what the health and wealth gospel teaches—I am quick to rebuke them. I immediately point out that the poor could be poor due to injustices committed against them. Yet, all of this notwithstanding, at some level I was still amazed to see people in this Kenyan slum who were simultaneously so spiritually strong and so devastatingly poor. At some level I had implicitly assumed that my economic superiority goes hand in hand with my spiritual superiority. This is none other than the lie of the health and wealth gospel:

Spiritual maturity leads to financial prosperity. I am in the process of repenting of this sin, which is clearly rooted in arrogance. My fear is that I am not alone in this sin. My fear is that the middle-class, American church is full of people like me, who assume that the poor necessarily need us to bring them closer to God. Perhaps just the opposite is true. I am in the process of repenting. Care to join me?