Joel Osteen's Theology

[Believe_85]

There’s been several specials on TV lately about Joel Osteen and his motivational speaking and stadium style church. I wanted to start this thread to discuss his messages of improving your life and living optimistically to determine if it’s true that his views are lacking in theological substance.

Thoughts, anyone?

 

[KJK80]

There’s been several specials on TV lately about Joel Osteen and his motivational speaking and stadium style church. I wanted to start this thread to discuss his messages of improving your life and living optimistically to determine if it’s true that his views are lacking in theological substance.

Thoughts, anyone?

I think he’s a genuinely good guy, who’s an outstanding speaker.

I also don’t think you can be popular in today’s culture without lacking in theological substance…

So there’s not much for me to discuss here.

 

[tundramom]

Here’s a great video from a friend of mine.

in Christ
Steph

youtube.com/watch?v=_Tx5-JAkz4o

 

[luvlife]

I think he’s annoying as all out gets. His speeking manner drives me nuts… the way he pivots. It seems waaaaaaay too staged & unnatural. His sermons are like cotton candy… nice, but just fluff.

Obviously I’m not a fan.

But that’s just my opinion.

 

[Alexius]

I think he’s annoying as all out gets. His speeking manner drives me nuts… the way he pivots. It seems waaaaaaay too staged & unnatural. His sermons are like cotton candy… nice, but just fluff.

Obviously I’m not a fan.

But that’s just my opinion.

Obviously not

I have to agree–His sermons are fluff. There is no substance to them in terms of Christ and His work for us. It’s more along the lines of, “Isn’t life just dandy? Know how to make it nicer? Well, what about with GOD! The more you give the more you receive from Him! Now pass up your tithes–I need to fuel up my jet…” I’m not saying he needs to be a Jonathan Edwards by telling people how GOD is vengeful and hates them as sinners, but a little meat goes a long way (as does the Flesh and Blood of Our Lord in the Eucharist)…Hope I didn’t offend any followers of his…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[mchale]

I think that Olsteen’s preaching is rather dangerous, as is the whole “Prosperity Gospel” that he and others like him preach. This whole notion that God will reward you with tangible blessings in this life for the good you do here is just so wrong. God may grant you good things in this life, but as many saints have shown (as well as the book of Job) God often tests most harshly those he loves the most.

Ultimately, without recognizing that prosperity is not necessarily a sign of God’s favor and suffering is not a sign of his disfavor, you can lead a lot of people astray.

–
Bill

 

[reteeks21]

I think that Olsteen’s preaching is rather dangerous, as is the whole “Prosperity Gospel” that he and others like him preach. This whole notion that God will reward you with tangible blessings in this life for the good you do here is just so wrong. God may grant you good things in this life, but as many saints have shown (as well as the book of Job) God often tests most harshly those he loves the most.

Ultimately, without recognizing that prosperity is not necessarily a sign of God’s favor and suffering is not a sign of his disfavor, you can lead a lot of people astray.

–
Bill

He is not a prosperity gospel preacher. He never mentions gaining material things. If you listen to him you would see that he teaches that Christians should claim the freedom and forgiveness God gives us so we do not spend our time on earth walking around despising ourselves. I have read, and heard him that money and possessions mean nothing in the long run. He stresses relationships and claiming the promises of God. Is there anything wrong with that, or is not the Catholic way of interpreting scripture?

 

[graceandglory]

He is not a prosperity gospel preacher. He never mentions gaining material things.

Which part of “prosperity gospel” don’t you understand?

“I believe one of the main ways that we grow in favor is by declaring it. It’s not enough to just read it it’s not enough to just believe it. You’ve got to speak it out. Your words have creative power. And one of the primary ways we release our faith is through our words. And there is a divine connection between you declaring God’s favor and you seeing God’s favor manifest in your life…You’ve got to give life to your faith by speaking it out.” -Joel Osteen
cultlink.com/ar/osteen.htm

 

[twosweetgirls]

I don’t like him either, for the reasons mentioned above. I also find his pasted-on smile, too-wide eyes and soft tone of voice as kinda creepy, almost hypnotic.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Anyone have any links to any writings of his? (instead of video)

 

[reteeks21]

Which part of “prosperity gospel” don’t you understand?

I understand both parts perfectly fine, thanks. If it is wrong to speak words of faith, then I guess he’s in big trouble, right? Is it really necessary to respond with such a rude comment? If I defended him or anyone else that preached do for God and He will give you wealth, I could understand your insulting comment. I defended him because I see nothing wrong with claiming God’s promises for our lives so that we may live that abundant life He has given us. Why is that wrong? Does that contradict what Jesus would want from His followers?

 

[Mighty_Q]

I think that Olsteen’s preaching is

Ultimately, without recognizing that prosperity is not necessarily a sign of God’s favor and suffering is not a sign of his disfavor, you can lead a lot of people astray.

Bill

Was this not one of Jesus’ beefs with the pharisees?

 

[reteeks21]

Was this not one of Jesus’ beefs with the pharisees?

His beef was the legalsim that they put on the people. He hated that they abused their positions by making it impossible for normal people to recieve the forgiveness of God. He attacked legalism not someone living a life of faith that is strengthened everyday by the promises of God.

 

[puzzleannie]

I think this discussion will be more profitable and to the point if we confine it to actual citations of his words in writing and speaking, and leave personality (his and ours) out of it. I have no direct knowledge except reports of parishioners and friends who have travelled to hear him and the extremely negative effect his message has on a weak Catholic faith.

 

[ibkc]

I think the Word of Faith/Prosperity Gospel movement is one of the worst, most cynical twistings of Jesus’ teaching that has ever been devised. It is all the worse because it is dressed up in an attractive package and it sounds so nice on the surface.

 

[jblake]

reteeks21;:

If it is wrong to speak words of faith, then I guess he’s in big trouble, right?

CNN: Larry King Show: 20 June 2005 said he didn’t know if non-Christians went to heaven.

In his 60 Minutes interview, he said his aim was to “try to leave them better off than they were before.” In an elaboration of that comment, he states that their current physical/material condition is more important than their spiritual condition.

I defended him because I see nothing wrong with claiming God’s promises for our lives so that we may live that abundant life He has given us. Why is that wrong? Does that contradict what Jesus would want from His followers?

There is nothing wrong with claiming God’s promises, if one lives one’s life in accordance with his commandments.

One of those implicit commandments is to live by God’s will, not man’s will. In both the Tanakh and the New Testament, the emphasis is on other people, not one’s self.

Joel’s teachings are about one’s self. He said on Larry King Live that one did not need to make a confession of faith to go to heaven. A statement that shocked/surprised Larry so much, that Larry re-asked the question, thinking he misunderstood the answer, but received the same answer. ( I’ll grant that Joel later claimed that he thought he thought he had already covered that, was answering a slightly different question.)

xan

jonathon

 

[graceandglory]

Is it really necessary to respond with such a rude comment?

Sorry you received my comment as rude. I thought it was funny. I should have added a smiley to it.

If I defended him or anyone else that preached do for God and He will give you wealth, I could understand your insulting comment.

But that IS what Joel Osteen preaches.

Tell that to Mother Teresa. Tell that to those who are taking up their cross daily and suffering and living in poverty.

Tell that to Mary and Joseph who apparently didn’t have enough faith to get a room in the Inn for the Lord Jesus to be born, while Joel Osteen has enough faith to garner his vast wealth, the closest parking spot or miraculously being bumped to First-Class from Coach.

 

[reteeks21]

Sorry you received my comment as rude. I thought it was funny. I should have added a smiley to it.

But that IS what Joel Osteen preaches.

Tell that to Mother Teresa. Tell that to those who are taking up their cross daily and suffering and living in poverty.

Tell that to Mary and Joseph who apparently didn’t have enough faith to get a room in the Inn for the Lord Jesus to be born, while Joel Osteen has enough faith to garner his vast wealth, the closest parking spot or miraculously being bumped to First-Class from Coach.

He no longer recieves a salary. The overwhelming majority of his income goes tithing. He has never preached using God to get rich. None of his messages say that, and none of his books say that. And he has constantly said that we are no good to others if we aren’t “all there”, so to speak. He wants to see people empowered by the God’s power so they can make a difference. If ministering to others daily, as his church does, is not taking up your cross and following God then maybe our perception of doing so is a little messed up. His church has turned out numerous people who have joined the mission field or another postition in society where their goal is to minister for Christ. If that is still considered heretical by you, then so be it.

 

[mchale]

He is not a prosperity gospel preacher. He never mentions gaining material things. If you listen to him you would see that he teaches that Christians should claim the freedom and forgiveness God gives us so we do not spend our time on earth walking around despising ourselves. I have read, and heard him that money and possessions mean nothing in the long run. He stresses relationships and claiming the promises of God. Is there anything wrong with that, or is not the Catholic way of interpreting scripture?

With respect, he is generally lumped in with the Prosperity Gospel movement. He may not be as overt as others in promising material wealth, but he does seem to promise that our material needs will be met. Here is a quote:

Does God want us to be rich? When I hear that word rich, I think people say, ‘Well, he’s preaching that everybody’s going to be a millionaire.’ I don’t think that’s it. I preach that anybody can improve their lives. I think God wants us to be prosperous. I think he wants us to be happy. To me, you need to have money to pay your bills. I think God wants us to send our kids to college. I think he wants us to be a blessing to other people. But I don’t think I’d say God wants us to be rich. It’s all relative, isn’t it?
*

So, it may not be the Prosperity Gospel, but it does seem to promise that if you are right with God, God will take care of your fiscal needs and make sure your kids get to go to college.

Regarding the notion of “claiming the promises of God”. I find that notion to be decidedly troublesome. God has made us promises, but we don’t make claims on those promises, rather we accept the gifts he gives. The word claim suggests a level of entitlement. We are ultimately entitled to nothing from God. We are given much but God, but we need to remember that his promises are not for this life, but for the next.

Regarding forgiveness. Again it is not something to be claimed! If you think forgiveness can be claimed, see what happens if the next time you are in a fight with your spouse you try to claim forgiveness. Rather you have to ask for forgiveness… and God gives it freely… but it is not ours to claim. And we should never despise ourselves because we are created by God and in his image, but likewise, we should despise our fallen and sinful nature that pulls us away from God.

People like Joel Osteen and many others seem to miss the point that Christianity is not a promise; its a challenge. The relationship is there if we dare to claim it. But don’t expect our lives here to get better in any way because of it! Expect to be rejected by friends, to give up your material possessions and potentially even your life.

–
Bill

 

[mchale]

He no longer recieves a salary. The overwhelming majority of his income goes tithing. He has never preached using God to get rich. None of his messages say that, and none of his books say that. And he has constantly said that we are no good to others if we aren’t “all there”, so to speak. He wants to see people empowered by the God’s power so they can make a difference. If ministering to others daily, as his church does, is not taking up your cross and following God then maybe our perception of doing so is a little messed up. His church has turned out numerous people who have joined the mission field or another postition in society where their goal is to minister for Christ. If that is still considered heretical by you, then so be it.

There are Muslims who are missionaries and who minister to the poor; does that mean that their beliefs are consistent with the Christian message?

Mind you, regarding his salary, naturally the $200,000 a year would not be necessary after he signs a book deal that is worth more than $10 million! I also wonder why a preacher ever needed a $200,000 a year salary?

As for how much he tithes? Well, I would like to see some documentation to the fact that he tithes most of his income… and to where he tithes it?

–
Bill