Joel Osteen's Theology

[reteeks21]

There are Muslims who are missionaries and who minister to the poor; does that mean that their beliefs are consistent with the Christian message?

Mind you, regarding his salary, naturally the $200,000 a year would not be necessary after he signs a book deal that is worth more than $10 million! I also wonder why a preacher ever needed a $200,000 a year salary?

As for how much he tithes? Well, I would like to see some documentation to the fact that he tithes most of his income… and to where he tithes it?

–
Bill

And I have often wondered why the Vatican needs an estimated wealth of $10-$15 billion with $1.6 billions of it stuck in Italian stockholdings, which hmakes up 15% of the value of listed shares on the Italian market. And why does the Vatican need big investments in banking, insurance, chemicals, steel, construction, real estate? It is amazing how people like you loooooove to criticize Protestant ministers for wealth but you can’t even turn your analytical eye back to your own church. That’s called hypocrisy.

And thanks for comparing those of us who are Protestants working to show Christ with Muslims. We appreciate that. Keep in mind, we seek to help everyone not just those of our own religion. It just amazes me how many people on here can try and come to some common ground and understanding with Protestants. I assume that if you did you might feel like you have let the church down some how.

 

[mchale]

And I have often wondered why the Vatican needs an estimated wealth of $10-$15 billion with $1.6 billions of it stuck in Italian stockholdings, which hmakes up 15% of the value of listed shares on the Italian market. And why does the Vatican need big investments in banking, insurance, chemicals, steel, construction, real estate? It is amazing how people like you loooooove to criticize Protestant ministers for wealth but you can’t even turn your analytical eye back to your own church. That’s called hypocrisy.

There is, I think quite a difference between examining the personal wealth a minister has acquired through his ministry and comparing the corporate wealth of an organization. It would be a fairer critique if I criticized the wealth of his church (which according to one article brings in about $70 million a year!) It took the Vatican what, 1500 years to accumulate $15 billion, much of it in the art and buildings that are the shared heritage of the world.

Mind you I am not criticizing the money wealth his organization has accumulated. Rather I am pointing out that his giving up his salary after signing a multi-million dollar book deal hardly indicates a man giving up his living for God. In fact (not that I am specifically accusing Rev. Osteen of this since I don’t know what is really in his heart), it could be a shrewd marketing move since it inspires some like you to defend him and probably go out and buy his books.

And thanks for comparing those of us who are Protestants working to show Christ with Muslims. We appreciate that. Keep in mind, we seek to help everyone not just those of our own religion. It just amazes me how many people on here can try and come to some common ground and understanding with Protestants. I assume that if you did you might feel like you have let the church down some how.

No, I did not compare Protestants with Muslims, what I showed was the simple fact of missionary work and giving to the poor does not in and of itself prove anything! Indeed, I could argue that there are nominally Catholic organizations that fall under the same category.

I am not attacking Protestants in general, rather I am offering my own opinion about Joel Osteen’s Theology. There are actually some Protestants whose thoughts and theology I have great respect for (even if I don’t always agree with everything they say or write). Billy Graham and C.S. Lewis are two Protestants for whom I have a great deal of respect.

–
Bill

 

[DJgang]

He’s a motivational speaker who throws in the word God occasionally.

The other morning, I stopped the channel on him, listened for about three minutes and he only said God one time.

I don’t know his educational background. I don’t care to watch him on TV, the visual, his whole manner kind of makes me…:ehh: (not to say that I haven’t felt that way meeting other ministers)…

Motivate + Tell them what they want to hear + God = A good career choice and a big crowd.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

There’s been several specials on TV lately about Joel Osteen and his motivational speaking and stadium style church. I wanted to start this thread to discuss his messages of improving your life and living optimistically to determine if it’s true that his views are lacking in theological substance.

Thoughts, anyone?

Just another form of Deism.

CDL

 

[luvlife]

Just another form of Deism.

CDL

What does that mean?

 

[GregoryPalamas]

What does that mean?

Are you asking what Deism means?

In any event "God is not important to everyday life. All that is necessary is to understand certain principles of life so we can manipulate them.

CDL

 

[luvlife]

Are you asking what Deism means?

In any event "God is not important to everyday life. All that is necessary is to understand certain principles of life so we can manipulate them.

CDL

Yes, I was asking what the word “deism” meant.

I still don’t really understand what it means… what principals in life do WE have the power to “manipulate?” It seems like much is totally out of our control?

Is this one of those new-age type things… think it and the universe will send it to you?

 

[Believe_85]

What worries me about Osteen is I never hear him talk to people about the dangers of sin and the need for repentence. From my experience watching him, I feel he just wants viewers to forget about what they have done and live in the spirit of optimism.

I don’t think we should feel guilty forever, but there is a need to feel sorry and make your peace personally with God (preferrably through Confession, but hard to do if you aren’t Catholic…).

 

[tundramom]

What worries me about Osteen is I never hear him talk to people about the dangers of sin and the need for repentence. From my experience watching him, I feel he just wants viewers to forget about what they have done and live in the spirit of optimism.

I don’t think we should feel guilty forever, but there is a need to feel sorry and make your peace personally with God (preferrably through Confession, but hard to do if you aren’t Catholic…).

I agree.

When I left the Assembly of God for good, I was used to my previous Pastor doing the whole thing that Osteen does… “this is my Bible. I am what it says I am… etc.” After being EXTREMELY hurt by this Pastor, and not knowing where to go…

I sat down without a church home on a Sunday morning. I clicked through the TV and zeroed in on Osteen because he was Professing… “This is my Bible”. I sat through about 20 minutes after that and noticed that NO ONE in the audience (I don’t call it a congregation) even glanced at their bibles that were open on their laps. They sat there with pasted on smiles watching Osteen. Not ONCE in that time, did he even open his own Bible. He did paraphrase one verse in his feel-good message. I was sickened, but I really believe that God showed me this for a reason…

Thankfully, EWTN is the next channel over and I turned it to watch Mass. I cried and cried and cried and ran to my new HOME and right to confession.

in Christ
Steph

 

[vocatio]

His theology falls under Prosperity Theology an early church heresy as well. His teachings directly contradict scripture. Jesus said people will hate you because of me. He fails to embrace the cross and teaches other such off based heresy.

I feel sorry for him and his followers. I believe many of them are sincere. I presume he is also sincere, but its difficult to know.

 

[tundramom]

Has anyone read Jim Bakker’s book “I Was Wrong”?

He did see after his whole jail thing and adultery and jail and prosperity gospel gone wrong… It’s a good read.

in Christ
Steph

 

[Byzcat]

I see Joel Osteen in the same light as I see most neo-Pagans and New Agers.

They offer all of the benefits of a religion - a sense of Spiritual connection, a belief that prayers are answered in some fashion to provide for material needs, sense of community with fellow believers- without the responsibilites of leading a moral life, charity, self-denial.

OK, all together now…

This is my Bible. I am what it says I am. I have what it says I have. I can do what it says I can do.

I’m going to go read it now.

 

[tundramom]

I see Joel Osteen in the same light as I see most neo-Pagans and New Agers.

They offer all of the benefits of a religion - a sense of Spiritual connection, a belief that prayers are answered in some fashion to provide for material needs, sense of community with fellow believers- without the responsibilites of leading a moral life, charity, self-denial.

OK, all together now…
This is my Bible. I am what it says I am. I have what it says I have. I can do what it says I can do.

I’m going to go read it now.

This is my Bible:
I am what it says I am
I have what it says I have
I can do what it says I can do.
Today, I will be taught the Word of God.
I’ll boldly confess.
My mind is alert
my heart is receptive
I will never be the same.
I am about to receive the incorruptible, indestructible, ever-living Seed of the Word of God.

I’ll never be the same

never, never, never!

I’ll never be the same,

in Jesus’ Name.

yup that’s it…

 

[vocatio]

Altogether now!!!

Give Me the Bible
Give me the Bible, star of gladness gleaming,
To cheer the wand’rer lone and tempest tossed;
No storm can hide that radiance peaceful beaming,
Since Jesus came to seek and save the lost.

Refrain
Give me the Bible, holy message shining;
Thy light shall guide me in the narrow way;
Precept and promise, law and love combining,
Till night shall vanish in eternal day.

---

Give me the Bible, when my heart is broken,
When sin and grief have filled my soul with fear;
Give me the precious words by Jesus spoken,
Hold up faith’s lamp to show my Savior near.
Refrain
Give me the Bible, all my steps enlighten,
Teach me the danger of these realms below;
That lamp of safety o’er the gloom shall brighten,
That light alone the path of peace can show.
Refrain
Give me the Bible, lamp of life immortal,
Hold up that splendor by the open grave;
Show me the light from Heaven’s shining portal,
Show me the glory gilding Jordan’s wave.
Refrain
Priscilla Jane Owens
1829-1907

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Yes, I was asking what the word “deism” meant.

I still don’t really understand what it means… what principals in life do WE have the power to “manipulate?” It seems like much is totally out of our control?

Is this one of those new-age type things… think it and the universe will send it to you?

No. It is the standard religion of Western Society if you aren’t particularly religious. It orginated in the eighteenth century with 'Voltaire and a few others. The best way to describe it is “God set the world in order with some principle to follow to keep it going and then walked away.” It is not a Christian perspective but one followed by many Protestants and even some Catholics.

CDL

 

[luvlife]

No. It is the standard religion of Western Society if you aren’t particularly religious. It orginated in the eighteenth century with 'Voltaire and a few others. The best way to describe it is “God set the world in order with some principle to follow to keep it going and then walked away.” It is not a Christian perspective but one followed by many Protestants and even some Catholics.

CDL

I see. Thank you.

 

[graceandglory]

He’s a motivational speaker who throws in the word God occasionally.

The other morning, I stopped the channel on him, listened for about three minutes and he only said God one time.

I don’t know his educational background. I don’t care to watch him on TV, the visual, his whole manner kind of makes me…:ehh: (not to say that I haven’t felt that way meeting other ministers)…

Motivate + Tell them what they want to hear + God = A good career choice and a big crowd.

BINGO!!!
That’s what I see too. He’s like a born-again Tony Robbins.

 

[graceandglory]

His theology falls under Prosperity Theology an early church heresy as well. His teachings directly contradict scripture. Jesus said people will hate you because of me. He fails to embrace the cross and teaches other such off based heresy.

And the danger of this kind of heresy is that when the chips are down, the people who are buying into it have no place to turn. They don’t go to their Bibles, because they don’t know that the true gospel is a gospel of sacrifice and suffering. A life of carrying our crosses for Christ, and accepting pain and suffering in this life to be made perfect for the next.

Those followers never become truly equipped to handle real Christian living. And so they leave their Christianity behind, disillusioned. Because that is what he and the other prosperity preachers teach: an illusion: If you believe in Christ, then your life will be like this. :nope: It might be and it might not.

I’m following Christ as a poor school teacher. I believed when I was younger, that that would be the best way I could share my faith with others. I can’t afford to buy a home. That’s the breaks. If I get lucky and invest well, I might become rich. It has nothing to do with my faith. That part of life is based on choices and chance.

 

[graceandglory]

Has anyone read Jim Bakker’s book “I Was Wrong”?

He did see after his whole jail thing and adultery and jail and prosperity gospel gone wrong… It’s a good read.

in Christ
Steph

Is he Catholic now?

 

[mchale]

No. It is the standard religion of Western Society if you aren’t particularly religious. It orginated in the eighteenth century with 'Voltaire and a few others. The best way to describe it is “God set the world in order with some principle to follow to keep it going and then walked away.” It is not a Christian perspective but one followed by many Protestants and even some Catholics.

CDL

Actually, I am not sure I would agree with the notion of it being the standard religion of Western Society. Most theists I know who are not very religious tend to believe in God in a vague sort of way; someone to pray to when you or someone you know is sick, but otherwise they have not thought about God much. Deism has at its core that God is essentially a clock maker. Ultimately, a true Deist would see no point in prayer since God wouldn’t answer (or even hear the prayer).

–
Bill