John 1:25

[FireFromHeaven]

I was debating a Muslim and he pulled John 1:25 ( They asked him, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Messiah or Elijah or the Prophet?”)
I know it doesn’t refer to Muhammad but then who are the Jews talking about when they say the prophet.

 

[adrift]

In a source that I have it gives this:

Deuteronomy 18 15: "The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brethren – him you shall heed –
Deuteronomy 18 18: I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brethren; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him.
Matthew 11 14: and if you are willing to accept it, he is Eli’jah who is to come.
Matthew 16 14: And they said, “Some say John the Baptist, others say Eli’jah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
Matthew 21 11: And the crowds said, “This is the prophet Jesus from Nazareth of Galilee.”

Jesus

I checked the notes on the Douay Bible which says The expected Messsias was known a “The Prophet” From Deut 18, 18 Eias was generally looked for as His precursor.

 

[dronald]

I was debating a Muslim and he pulled John 1:25 ( They asked him, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Messiah or Elijah or the Prophet?”)
I know it doesn’t refer to Muhammad but then who are the Jews talking about when they say the prophet.

John 1 is the worst possible place a Muslim can go to try and defend Islam against Christianity. Tell your Muslim friend to read 4 verses down:

25 questioned him, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Messiah, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?”

26 “I baptize with[e] water,” John replied, “but among you stands one you do not know. 27 He is the one who comes after me, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.”

28 This all happened at Bethany on the other side of the Jordan, where John was baptizing.

29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Unfortunately for Muslims, they are commanded to look into the Gospel to find proof of their beliefs. Therefore they look, and look, and when they can’t find anything they try to justify their beliefs. If you would like I could PM you with some of the other claims that Muslims will make and the simple counter claims to those claims.

Trust me, they all fall flat and there’s nothing to worry about.​

Edit. Rather tell him to read one passage down where John clearly states that the one coming after him is Jesus, who’s sandals he is unworthy to tie. Then he points out Jesus.

 

[ChurchSoldier]

Good for you on engaging Muslims!

 

[FireFromHeaven]

John 1 is the worst possible place a Muslim can go to try and defend Islam against Christianity. Tell your Muslim friend to read 4 verses down:

25 questioned him, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Messiah, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?”

26 “I baptize with[e] water,” John replied, “but among you stands one you do not know. 27 He is the one who comes after me, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.”

28 This all happened at Bethany on the other side of the Jordan, where John was baptizing.

29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Unfortunately for Muslims, they are commanded to look into the Gospel to find proof of their beliefs. Therefore they look, and look, and when they can’t find anything they try to justify their beliefs. If you would like I could PM you with some of the other claims that Muslims will make and the simple counter claims to those claims.

Trust me, they all fall flat and there’s nothing to worry about.​

Edit. Rather tell him to read one passage down where John clearly states that the one coming after him is Jesus, who’s sandals he is unworthy to tie. Then he points out Jesus.

He says that since the messiah refers to Jesus why refer to him again as the prophet. Im not sure exactly how to answer.

 

[dronald]

He says that since the messiah refers to Jesus why refer to him again as the prophet. Im not sure exactly how to answer.

You can direct him to history. The Jews never have been, nor are they now looking for a prophet who is separate from the Messiah. If the Jews were truly looking for two separate people, ie: “One Prophet and one Messiah.” Then there would be evidence for this throughout history, including today.

Jews are still looking for their prophet, and their Messiah, but the prophet will be the Messiah and the Messiah will be the prophet.

John quickly clears up who he is, he was a fulfillment of prophecy, “the voice of one calling in the wilderness, ‘Make straight the way for the Lord.” and he points to the one who’s sandals he is unable to tie. That is the one they should be looking to, He is the Prophet and the Messiah.

Now the main issue that you should ask your Muslim friend is why he insists on quoting John 1 when vs 29 states “The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!”

This is not in line with Islamic theology at all, they reject it, therefore they must reject the passages proceeding it. To pick and choose what Scriptures you like in order to prove your point is heresy.

Notice they weren’t asking if Jesus was the Messiah or the Prophet, the answer to both those questions would have been a strict, “yes.” Rather they were asking John, the answer being No.

 

[chosen_people]

I was debating a Muslim and he pulled John 1:25 ( They asked him, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Messiah or Elijah or the Prophet?”)
I know it doesn’t refer to Muhammad but then who are the Jews talking about when they say the prophet.

The second of the six messianic criterion for the Messiah ben David is that he will be anointed King of Israel. The word messiah means anointed with oil and in the messianic context refers to an anointed king. Normally, Jewish prophets (or a High Priest) anoint Jewish kings (with oil) because prophets are messengers of God and authenticate their right to kingship (see 1 Samuel 15:1, 16:1,13).

One of the reasons that the prophet Malachi foretold that the prophet Elijah would return prior to the coming of the Messiah ben David ( Malachi 3:23-24) is to anoint David’s messianic descendant King of Israel.

Matthew claimed that John the Baptist was “Elijah the prophet” (Matthew 11:11-14,17:12-13).

However, the Gospel of John, in contradiction to Matthew, reported that John the Baptist said he was not the prophet Elijah (John 1:21).

 

[FireFromHeaven]

Here is what he said back.

Why would jews expect that prophet during time of Jesus and John? why would they ask for 3 person, Christ, Elijah and that prophet?

who fullfilled this prophecy then if not muhammed?

if you say Jesus fullfilled it, then why would they ask are you the Christ, he answers NO and then they asked are you that prophet, he answered No?

if Christ and that prophet are same then why would they repeat themselves, if he allready answered No when they asked about Christ.

Let me give you an example, if i ask you, are you a Man, you say yes, then i ask you ,are you a HUman?

is it logical that i repeat myself like this??? no, then it is not logical that they repeat themselves also.

the Christ is prophet , but That prophet means someone else not Christ. it is not logical to repeat themselves. just like i would not ask you if you are a man, you say no, and then i ask you are you a human., there is no sense in this.

 

[Goya]

Here is what he said back.

Why would jews expect that prophet during time of Jesus and John? why would they ask for 3 person, Christ, Elijah and that prophet?

who fullfilled this prophecy then if not muhammed?

if you say Jesus fullfilled it, then why would they ask are you the Christ, he answers NO and then they asked are you that prophet, he answered No?

if Christ and that prophet are same then why would they repeat themselves, if he allready answered No when they asked about Christ.

Let me give you an example, if i ask you, are you a Man, you say yes, then i ask you ,are you a HUman?

is it logical that i repeat myself like this??? no, then it is not logical that they repeat themselves also.

the Christ is prophet , but That prophet means someone else not Christ. it is not logical to repeat themselves. just like i would not ask you if you are a man, you say no, and then i ask you are you a human., there is no sense in this.

Among whatever else you reply, I suggest the following:

Why didn’t Christ prophesize a prophet yet to come? He did no such thing.

He did prophesize a paraclete–the Holy Spirit–but nothing akin to the prophet Muhammed.

Furthermore, his ‘argument’ is pretty thin. To illustrate, look at that analogous/parallel hypo. question:

“…why do you pretend to enforce the law? you aren’t the police, nor Elliott Ness, nor even a security guard…”

Note: the above question follows the pattern of John 1:25, as ‘Messiah’ and ‘prophet’ refer to quasi offices, while Elijah would be a famous prophet, as Elliot Ness was a famous police officer.

By his ‘logic’, it would be illogical to ask if he was also a security guard, because he already asked if he was a police officer (and E. Ness). But his logic is flawed, because the question was clearly rhetorical–inteneded to make a point; the repetition is for effect, to emphasize the same point. Not actually seeking information.

IOW: the Pharisees weren’t actually inquiring of JTB if he was the Messiah, or actually Elijah, or actually ‘the Prophet’–just making the point of 'who the heck do you think you are, going around baptizing ppl?"

 

[ivdaeorum]

I believe the when mentioning the “prophet” they were talking about Moses, who in Judaism was considered the greatest of all prophets.

 

[FCEGM]

He says that since the messiah refers to Jesus why refer to him again as the prophet. Im not sure exactly how to answer.

This passage from the Dictionary of Biblical Theology, by Xavier Leon-Dufour (in the section on the word “prophet”) is helpful:

"it is little wonder [given the teachings of Jesus along with the miraculous signs] that the crowds sponteously gave to Jesus the title of prophet (Mt. 16:14; Lk. 7:16; Jn. 4:19; 9:17), a title in individual situations means the prophet par excellence foretold in the Scriptures (Jn. 1:21; 6:14; 7:40. Jesus, however, accepts this designation only in a passing way and the primitive Church made little use of the expressions (Ac. 3:22ff; cf. Lk. 24:19). The personality of Jesus surpasses in every respect the tradition surrounding a prophet: He is the Messiah, the Servant of God, the Son of Man. The authority which He holds from His Father is entirely His own. It is that of the Son, which places Him far above the level of a prophet (Heb. 1:1ff). He receives His message indeed; but, as John will say, He is the Word of God made Flesh (Jn. 1:14). In effect, what prophet could ever have presented himself as the source of truth and of life? The prophets used to say, 'oracle of Yahweh!" Jesus on the other hand says, “Amen., Amen I say to you . . .” His mission and His person are of a different order." (pg. 473, Dictionary of Biblical Theology)