John 12:24, Unless a Grain of Wheat

[AlanFromWichita]

Today I thought of something I haven’t previously considered.
John 12:24-25:

Amen, amen, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains just a grain of wheat; but if it dies, it produces much fruit. Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will preserve it for eternal life.

Part of the note on verse 24, from the NAB: “This verse implies that through his death Jesus will be accessible to all.”

I know that scripture has many levels of meaning, and I used to think this verse also was talking about our own physical deaths, but now I’m questioning that. The “new” thing that occurred to me today was the difference in the reproduction of wheat plants v. human beings. A wheat plant cannot reproduce and bear much fruit unless the grains fall and die. Human being, however, reproduce without dying.

This is what I thought upon some reflection; whether it’s what was intended I don’t know – but I also think scripture speaks to us at many levels that can be very personal.

I think this is about dying to our worldly self, and that’s why I included verse 25 as a follow up. I think Christ is talking about the old self, like the one in my current signature:
Col 3:9-10:

Stop lying to one another, since you have taken off the old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed, for knowledge, in the image of its creator.

Maybe it’s a bit like the old and new wineskin message from Friday’s Gospel?

How does this passage strike other people?

Alan

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Today I thought of something I haven’t previously considered.

Part of the note on verse 24, from the NAB: “This verse implies that through his death Jesus will be accessible to all.”

I know that scripture has many levels of meaning, and I used to think this verse also was talking about our own physical deaths, but now I’m questioning that. The “new” thing that occurred to me today was the difference in the reproduction of wheat plants v. human beings. A wheat plant cannot reproduce and bear much fruit unless the grains fall and die. Human being, however, reproduce without dying.

This is what I thought upon some reflection; whether it’s what was intended I don’t know – but I also think scripture speaks to us at many levels that can be very personal.

I think this is about dying to our worldly self, and that’s why I included verse 25 as a follow up. I think Christ is talking about the old self, like the one in my current signature:

Maybe it’s a bit like the old and new wineskin message from Friday’s Gospel?

How does this passage strike other people?

Alan

To me it basically signified the fact that through Christ’s death many would be saved. In addition the death of a martyr or martyrs may, in the long run, greatly increase the number of people saved. The Church has a saying, “the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Christianity”, which can supposedly be dated back to Tertullian.

In a DVD I have of Bishop Fulton Sheen, he pointed out something I had not considered. When Christ said this, He was talking to Greeks (see John 12:20). They wanted to see Him and they did.

Now Sheen said we don’t know what they said to Christ, but he said we can probably guess. “Sir, if you stay here amongst these people, they’ll kill you. Why don’t you come to Athens? We’ve got the wise men. We’ve only killed on good man in our history, Socrates, and we’ve regretted it ever since. But if you stay here, they’ll kill you! Come to Athens!”

Now they were Greeks, not Jews, so Christ couldn’t speak to them of the Scriptures or the Prophets. So He appealed to nature, which they could understand, and understood well. He drew their attention to the fact that before a tree could grow and give fruit, the seed must first fall to the ground and die. Only then could it rise again in new glory.

So He was saying He had to stay in Jerusalem, and die, and fall to the ground. But from that He would bear much fruit.

Most of us ignore the fact He was talking to Greeks, and not Jews.

 

[rcjones]

Most of us ignore the fact He was talking to Greeks, and not Jews.

Good observation. The whole book of John is written to Greeks to answer the question:
Why should we Greeks, who have been duped by gods who become men (like Zeus) and men who become Gods (like Caesar) accept Jesus as a God-man?

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Thank you both for your replies. I’m still rereading them to try to understand.

Sorry I haven’t answered yet. I’m not well versed in social studies, either now or in Biblical days, so it takes me a while. It’s nice to have others help me understand the importance of the part about the Greeks. Now I see that in the previous verses, but I missed their significance.

Alan