John 15:13 assures salvation?

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My understanding is that anyone who laysa down their life for another will be in paradise. Is this correct?

Is it something explicity stated in scripture or a conclusion that can be drawn form Christ’s teachings?

usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john15.htm
 
LtTony-My understanding is that anyone who laysa down their life for another will be in paradise. Is this correct? said:

***As stated the answer is No.

Mt. 16:“25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For what will it profit a man, if he gains the whole world and forfeits his life?”

Jn. 3: 16 “By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.* But if any one has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him? Little children, let us not love in word or speech but in deed and in truth.”

Jn. 15:12 "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends " [while this could be real, it seems to be a metaphorical message of charity.]

Rom. 5: 6 "While we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.Why, one will hardly die for a righteous man–though perhaps for a good man one will dare even to die. But God shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us**

So if your death is white or red martyrdom. White: offer your life for the sake of Christ w/o blood, Red actually being martyred for Christ, then, one might gain heaven?

Hope this helps. Examples of “white martyrs” include Padre Pio [now a Saint] and Mother Theresa of Culcatta.

Love and prayers,
 
Matthew 25, verses 31-46. Jesus criteria. To love anyone with practical goodness and kindness.

Jesus, You command that we love each other as You have loved us. You add that there is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for others. “Since the Father loved us so much that He sent You to be the sacrifice that takes our sins away, we too should love one another.” [John 4:10-11] “By such love, everyone will know that we are Your disciples.” “Anyone who says ‘I love God’, and hates his brother is a liar, since a person who does not love the brother that he can see, cannot love God whom he has never seen.” [1 letter of John 4:20-21]

It can be difficult to love others when they appear ‘troublesome’, or misjudge or reject us, or when we are weary and preoccupied! Each of us has only our personal consciousness, so that we only know our own feelings and thoughts, and may only imagine another’s. “The depths of a person can only be known by his own spirit, not by any other person.” [1Corinthians 2:1] So how can we truly love? “Let us love one another, since love comes from God.” [John 4:7] Therefore, Jesus, we may hope for God’s love in us that we may love as You have loved us.

As You have said, to live as Your disciples, as children of the Father, is impossible for humankind—but “nothing is impossible to God.” Love begins with awareness that each person is loved child of the Father. Therefore, Jesus, I pray for Your love in me for everyone You bring into my life. I forgive and bless each person who has hurt my loved ones or me. Please ensure that we forgive, however deeply others action or inaction wound us.

You have made us Your brothers and sisters; therefore, we will strive to overcome the difficulties that natural selfishness generates.

**We seldom must actually die as You did, for another person’s sake. Yet every day there are ways that we relinquish some preference, desire, or convenience for the need or wish of another person. Let Your Holy Spirit carry us lovingly though these little deaths. Love requires that we do so generously, kindly and cheerfully, for reluctance or resentment is not of the love that lays down life for anyone. **You wish us to love all whom You in any way entrust to our care, but You also require us to love and pray for our enemies—those who make our lives difficult and painful. Jesus, forgive us for those failures to love them truly. [Matthew. 5:44]
 
Forgive me, trishie, but is that a “yes” or a “no” to my question?
 
As stated the answer is No.

Mt. 16:"25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For what will it profit a man, if he gains the whole world and forfeits his life?"

Jn. 3: 16 "By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
But if any one has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him? Little children, let us not love in word or speech but in deed and in truth."

Jn. 15:12 "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends " [while this could be real, it seems to be a metaphorical message of charity.]

Rom. 5: 6 "While we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.Why, one will hardly die for a righteous man–though perhaps for a good man one will dare even to die
. But God shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us

So if your death is white or red martyrdom. White: offer your life for the sake of Christ w/o blood, Red actually being martyred for Christ, then, one might gain heaven?

Hope this helps. Examples of “white martyrs” include Padre Pio [now a Saint] and Mother Theresa of Culcatta.

Love and prayers,
So, as I stated the question, no. If I take a bullet for someone else, I will not automatically go to heaven. Is that correct?

You bring up a related subject that I should have considered – martyrdom, dying for the faith, for Christ. Are (red) martyrs promised paradise? (Sorry, but I didn’t understand your reply. You included a question mark: “Red actually being martyred for Christ, then, one might gain heaven?”)
 
Actually, the context of John 15 refutes the nature that salvation is assured. From the Catholic New American Bible:

NAB John 15:2 He takes away every branch in me that does not bear fruit, and everyone that does he prunes so that it bears more fruit. 3 You are already pruned because of the word that I spoke to you. 4 Remain in me, as I remain in you. Just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing. 6 Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned.

Note that Jesus speaks of branches that are “in him” (Greek EN EMOI = in me). These are not mere pretenders. Jesus himself says they are in him. They are part of the body of Christ. Note that the word branch is only used once. The branches in Christ are at this point equally in him. However some do not bear fruit. They do not remain in him (EN EMOI) The result of their not remaining in him is that they are thrown into the fire and burned. They are destroyed.

Therefore the context of John 15 is decidedly contrary to the belief commonly described as “once saved, always saved.”

Dan
 
=LtTony;5621593]So, as I stated the question, no. If I take a bullet for someone else, I will not automatically go to heaven. Is that correct?
***Correct 👍 MAYBE! If you do so while in the state of grace [without unconfessed, unrepented mortal sin] after some time in Purgatory you’ll end up in heaven. In the senero you give if you died with Mortal sin on your soul… Well you know. But what you did unless knowing that you are doing so as a martyr for Christ, will not make a difference on where you end up. It could shorten your time in purgatory.

So my advise friend is not to take a bullet for someone else.***
You bring up a related subject that I should have considered – martyrdom, dying for the faith, for Christ. Are (red) martyrs promised paradise? (Sorry, but I didn’t understand your reply. You included a question mark: “Red actually being martyred for Christ, then, one might gain heaven?”)
The questionmark indicates a conditional response. If the person were already a validly Baptized Christian who died with mortal sin on their soul; NOPE. If on the other hand the person was not a Baptized Christian even with unconfessed Mortal sin on their soul, because Baptism completely removes both all sins and the laten consequence for sin, such a person Dying for Christ would be granted immediate access to heaven😃

Hope this clarifies the issue for you:shrug:

Love and prayers,
 
Actually, the context of John 15 refutes the nature that salvation is assured… the context of John 15 is decidedly contrary to the belief commonly described as “once saved, always saved.”

Dan
Thanks, Dan. But my question wasn’t regarding OSAS. It was about the dying to save another person and/or martyrdom.

And thank you for your replies, PJM. Do you have any theological or doctrinal sources (links) that support your point of view. So far, you haven’t convinced me.

I’m anxious for more replies from other posters.
 
My understanding is that anyone who laysa down their life for another will be in paradise.
I would argue that it is not correct. For example ‘anyone’ could include a radical muslim suicide bomber who, in his mind and those of his comrades, is laying down his life for them when he detonates himself in the midst of the ‘enemy’. He may think he’s going to islamic paradise with 72 virgins and what not, but the reality is there is no such place…and he certainly wouldn’t be going to live with Jesus in heaven after slaughtering however so many innocents at his last breath.
 
=LtTony;5635925]Thanks, Dan. But my question wasn’t regarding OSAS. It was about the dying to save another person and/or martyrdom.

And thank you for your replies, PJM. Do you have any theological or doctrinal sources (links) that support your point of view. So far, you haven’t convinced me.

I’m anxious for more replies from other posters.
***What speciffically are you seeking? I’ll try to find the evidence you need.

Love and prayers,***
 
I would argue that it is not correct. For example ‘anyone’ could include a radical muslim suicide bomber who, in his mind and those of his comrades, is laying down his life for them when he detonates himself in the midst of the ‘enemy’. He may think he’s going to islamic paradise with 72 virgins and what not, but the reality is there is no such place…and he certainly wouldn’t be going to live with Jesus in heaven after slaughtering however so many innocents at his last breath.
That kind of scenario was about the LAST thing on my mind, LOL.

Clarification… “anyone” = a believer in christ. I won’t quibble over catholic vs other denominations. Let’s just leave that out. I just want to know if the OP is what christ taught.
 
=LtTony;5644290]That kind of scenario was about the LAST thing on my mind, LOL.

Clarification… “anyone” = a believer in christ. I won’t quibble over catholic vs other denominations. Let’s just leave that out. I just want to know if the OP is what christ taught.
The Defined Doctrine of the RCC on Salvation

***The basic Catholic teaching is that there is no salvation outside the Church. The Church here being the one that Christ Himself founded and which over the centuries has come to be identified as the “Catholic” Church. ***

***What is contingent for salvation then is initiation into the Catholic Church. This is properly done through the sacrament of baptism. Baptism places a permanent character on the soul, forever identifying it as Christian. Baptism also effaces the mark of Original Sin on the soul and all actual sins the person many have committed as well as all the temporal punishment due for them. If a person would die after being baptized, they would go straight to heaven. ***

***Once baptized a person must continue to grow and deepen their Faith in order to arrive at death in a good disposition. Christ, therefore, gave His Church other sacraments, teachings and powers in order that its members could be strengthened in the Christian life and live lives pleasing to God. At death, a soul must be in the state of grace, that is, have no major unconfessed sin upon the soul and thus be in peace and union with God. To be sure to die in such a good way, daily perseverance in Christian virtue and living is deemed necessary. This is the function of the Church in the life of a Catholic, for It provides the means and encouragement by which to correctly stay the course. ***

Catholic Catechism CCC: 169 Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother: “We believe the Church as the mother of our new birth, and not in the Church as if she were the author of our salvation.” Because she is our mother, she is also our teacher in the faith

CCC 780 The Church in this world is the sacrament of salvation, the sign and the instrument of the communion of God and men.

CCC 846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

Perhaps this becomes more understandable in the light and wisdom of Matthew 7: 13 "Enter by the narrow gate; [See Eph. 4: 4-8 One Church, One Faith and Mt. 16:15-19] for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. [Now IN EXCESS of 30,000 Protestant secs, each with separate beliefs and practices] For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few. "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.[clearly the road to hell is paved with good intentions] You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? So, every sound tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears evil fruit. A sound tree cannot bear evil fruit [the CC has been serving Christ for 2,000 consecutive years, and its still ONE CHURC!], nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.Thus you will know them by their fruits.”

Love and prayers,
Pat
 
I haven’t been able to devote as much time as I wanted on independent reaseach as I had wanted, but I did come across this. It is not specifically about a believer sacrificing their life for their faith or another, but there are some elements that apply…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=5191377

John 15:13

**13"Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. **

The Cross of Christ should inspire us to love Him as He has loved us. And when you truly love, you deny yourself and with this self-denying love comes the promise of eternal life (John 12:25). So he or she who lives a life of true charity, of supernatural love, will keep his life to life eternal. And a life of self-denying love entails works. You cannot have this self-denying love to which the promise of eternal life is attached without works:

1 John 3:16-18

**16We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17But whoever has the world’s goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him?
18Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. **

And hence the promise of eternal life is attached to a self-denying love that necessarily manifests itself in works. And Christ says in the context of denying oneself the following:

Matthew 16:24-27

24Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.
25"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.
26"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?
27"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.


And Paul said:

Romans 2:6-7

6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life
;

If you do not have works, the supernatural love poured into our hearts through the Spirit will not remain (1 John 3:17). And if you do not have love, then you cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven for it is promised and prepared for those who love:

James 2:5

**5Listen, my beloved brethren: did not God choose the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? **

IMO, the above portion in particular potentially validates salvation through martyrdom. Christ’s command was to love one another. And this act can be the supreme act of love.
 
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