John 17: 9-10 Pray for the world?

[JAGCath28]

John 17: 9-10 (NAB)

I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for the ones you have given me, because they are yours, and everything of mine is yours and everything of yours is mine, and I have been glorified in them.

Can someone explain to me what this set of verses means? It might be better to start from the beginning of the chapter, but these verses in particular struck a weird cord with me. Why is Jesus’ prayer to His Father saying that He is not praying for the world, but ONLY for “them” that were given to Him? Who is them and why not the whole world?

Love and peace,

Jessica

 

[bostonboy23]

im not trying to be mean or anything buy have you received any type of religious education at all? if you had you would know Jesus is praying to the Father for his disciples and for those of whom who would become part of his church. because the whole world is not christian Jesus does not prayer for them.

 

[jay29]

**“FATHER, . . . this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.” Jn 17 3.
**
“God our Savior desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” 1 Tim 2:3-4.

**"There is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved"3 - than the name of JESUS. **Acts 4:12

"Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God." John 1:12-13

When you are baptized you belong to God. You are one of His own. God does not call everyone to baptism. He calls the ones He chooses by name to enter His Church. Not every person belongs to God, nor His Church.

 

[Luke65]

Because Jesus is God - He knows the end from the beginning. So He knows who are His, those who will receive His grace, and who aren’t, those who will reject His grace. But we, on the other hand, do not know. And that is why we are commanded to love our enemies, and pray for those who persecute us.

 

[AlegreFe]

John 17: 9-10 (NAB)

I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for the ones you have given me, because they are yours, and everything of mine is yours and everything of yours is mine, and I have been glorified in them

The prince of this world is Satan. If a person is of the world they are not of God. One needs to be baptized to belong to God.

If you go to the EWTN website and download today’s (Tuesday, May 19) homily by Father Charles Conner you will get a better understanding.

Click on this link and scroll down to “DAILY HOMILIES” and right-click on Tuesday’s box then click “Save Target As” and save it in a folder then listen to all of it if you have time, readings and homily. It’s great today! I wanted to get up and cheer and shout “AMEN!” like the Pentecostals do. LOL

As far as not praying for them, Jesus clearly states in 1 John 5:16 not to pray for those who have deadly sin or as we in the Catholic Church call it “mortal sin” which means the same thing translated. Here is that verse and the verses that follow to get an even better understanding of the verses you put.

1 John 5 (RSV-CE)
16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin,
he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal.
There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that.
17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.
18 We know that any one born of God does not sin, but He who was
born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.
19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world is in the power
of the evil one.
20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us
understanding, to know him who is true; and we are in him who is true,
in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols.
Put all that together with today’s homily and with all other posts here and I’m sure you’ll better understand.

 

[JAGCath28]

"FATHER, . . . this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." Jn 17 3.
**
“God our Savior desires all men** to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” 1 Tim 2:3-4.

"There is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved"3 - than the name of JESUS. Acts 4:12

"Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God." John 1:12-13

When you are baptized you belong to God. You are one of His own. God does not call everyone to baptism. He calls the ones He chooses by name to enter His Church. Not every person belongs to God, nor His Church.

I will have to look into this more. This sounds very similar to pre-destination. I know that God knows all so, in essance, He already knows who will choose Him and who won’t, but even in your quote of the verses from 1 Timothy, I was taught that God desires all to be saved. I’ve read the Book of John many many times (although not really that many in the NAB version) so it was just interesting to me when I read that yesterday morning. Thanks for you (name removed by moderator)ut.

peace and love,

Jessica

 

[JAGCath28]

Because Jesus is God - He knows the end from the beginning. So He knows who are His, those who will receive His grace, and who aren’t, those who will reject His grace. But we, on the other hand, do not know. And that is why we are commanded to love our enemies, and pray for those who persecute us.

Thank you Luke. This is how I understand it as well. I guess because I’m looking at it from the human perspective where we are not called to judge men’s souls, I forget that our Father already knows the final judgment. I just know that we are taught to love and pray for the whole world, even when praying the Divine Mercy Chaplet so it kind of surprised me to read that passage.

 

[jay29]

Thank you Luke. This is how I understand it as well. I guess because I’m looking at it from the human perspective where we are not called to judge men’s souls, I forget that our Father already knows the final judgment. I just know that we are taught to love and pray for the whole world, even when praying the Divine Mercy Chaplet so it kind of surprised me to read that passage.

We are all God’s creations, but we ARE NOT all God’s Children. Baptism makes a person a child of God and Jesus prays for them.
"I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins." John 8:24

Those who refuse to believe in Christ are TOAST, per Christ. There are no sinful souls in heaven.

 

[Luke65]

I will have to look into this more. This sounds very similar to pre-destination. I know that God knows all so, in essance, He already knows who will choose Him and who won’t, but even in your quote of the verses from 1 Timothy, I was taught that God desires all to be saved. I’ve read the Book of John many many times (although not really that many in the NAB version) so it was just interesting to me when I read that yesterday morning. Thanks for you (name removed by moderator)ut.

peace and love,

Jessica

Yes, God does desire that all be saved. And more than that…

“For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.” (Titus 2:11)

Every person is offered Christ’s salvific grace, whether they know His name or not. Don’t worry, dear Jessica, God’s justice is perfect.

 

[distracted]

**"FATHER, . . … God does not call everyone to baptism. He calls the ones He chooses by name to enter His Church. Not every person belongs to God, nor His Church.
**

i dont’ believe this. Jesus died for EVerYONE…

He chooses those who “choose” Him… but He wants ALL to choose Him…

For God is not willing that any should perish…

 

[distracted]

1 John 5 (RSV-CE)
16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin,
he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal.
There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that.
17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.
18 We know that any one born of God does not sin, but He who was
born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.
19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world is in the power
of the evil one.
:

wow… this belongs on the Thread “Strange” Things Jesus Said…

I had forgotten about this one…

this would seem to be a contraditiction with another psg that says All have sinned… and the man who says he is not a sinner is a liar…

I personally don’t see the contradiction… or i should say i understand it but a non-believer would have a problem here…

and i (for example) have forsaken sin and try to avoid it… and all that but i am still a sinner… I am selfish in a lot of ways… etc…

.
​

​

 

[JAGCath28]

wow… this belongs on the Thread “Strange” Things Jesus Said…

I had forgotten about this one…

this would seem to be a contraditiction with another psg that says All have sinned… and the man who says he is not a sinner is a liar…

I personally don’t see the contradiction… or i should say i understand it but a non-believer would have a problem here…

and i (for example) have forsaken sin and try to avoid it… and all that but i am still a sinner… I am selfish in a lot of ways… etc…

.

Pardon me for my ignorance…but John was quoting Jesus when he wrote his 3 letters? 1st John is different than the Gospel accounts because it is John writing a letter about Jesus just letter any of Paul’s letters. So even though this may have been under the same mindset of Jesus…from what I can tell this isn’t a “direct” quote of Jesus. Please help me if I’ve missed something here.

 

[JAGCath28]

The prince of this world is Satan. If a person is of the world they are not of God. One needs to be baptized to belong to God.

If you go to the EWTN website and download today’s (Tuesday, May 19) homily by Father Charles Conner you will get a better understanding.

Click on this link and scroll down to “DAILY HOMILIES” and right-click on Tuesday’s box then click “Save Target As” and save it in a folder then listen to all of it if you have time, readings and homily. It’s great today! I wanted to get up and cheer and shout “AMEN!” like the Pentecostals do. LOL

As far as not praying for them, Jesus clearly states in 1 John 5:16 not to pray for those who have deadly sin or as we in the Catholic Church call it “mortal sin” which means the same thing translated. Here is that verse and the verses that follow to get an even better understanding of the verses you put.

Thanks! I listened to the homily, and it definitely makes a little more sense concerning the world. I need to listen to the homily this week concerning the exact verses brought up in this discussion. (I accidently read the wrong week’s daily readings when I read John 17 last week).