John 19:27

[Tim_in_MI]

Thanks for all the replies - I’m enjoying all the posts. I still haven’t seen a “final” statement that definitively supports/refutes the original statement, but I like the great posts so far. It’s nice to see all of the folks that get into the original language so deeply.

I have to say, It’s all Greek to me…

 

[Pug]

JLove:

P.S. Do you study Greek in school or just on your own.

I escaped school quite a bit ago:dancing: though I still seem to keep all these books around…

I am almost all self-taught on the Greek, and I have forgotten a lot. I heard about six lectures on Greek.

 

[JLove]

Pug,

I decided to pull out the big guns and talk to Tim Staples. Here is what he said,

Hey John,

If you want a good explanation, I would recommend you get a hold of “Refuting the Attacks on Mary” by Fr. Mateo. It is available here at Catholic Answers. Fr. Mateo basically explains that “eis ta idia” is a neuter plural substantive. The neuter indicates that St. John is non-committal. The masculine singular would be more clear that the text is referring uniquely to John (though even there, we can apply the spiritual sense of Scripture and get more meaning out of it). The neuter plural indicates that there is more going on here. Though it can simply be translated as “as his own.” It seems from context that “as their own” would work as well.

                                                   God Bless,

                                                         Tim

 

[Pug]

JLove,

I have that book. I don’t have the time to be intellectual tonight, but I will attempt to digest the reference tomorrow and see if there is anything further enlightening in it to post back. I found the right pages. For anyone who has the book and wants to look, see pages 40-42.

 

[Pug]

One other point that is in the book is that “eis” is often used in John with the meaning of end, purpose, or goal. Thus the author concludes that “as” or “for” are the correct translations. He refers to verses like 9:39 or 12:7. Then he says, “That the disciple took Mary eis ta idia means only that he took her as his own.” Author’s italics.

[The author had previously stated that it can by context be translated his own or their own.]

He also quotes a nice quote from if I understand John Paul 2 quoting Augustine (and now I’m quoting it): “He took her to himself, not into his own property, for he possessed nothing of his own, but among his own duties, which he attended to with dedication.”