John 20:17

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Jesus first appears to a woman, and entrusts her to preach the Good news of His resurrection to His Apostles, with the implicit assumption that they will believe her…

Why do we not allow women to preach? (I know Paul says women are not to preach in Church, but Christ doesn’t seem to have a problem with women and their being entrusted to preach - and about His glorious Resurrection no less!)

Help!?
 
What translation are you using? Mine says nothing about preaching to the Apostles or anyone else. It says Mary Magdalene was to go and tell and so she did:
:Jesus said to her,“Stop holding on to me, 10 for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” 18 Mary of Magdala went and announced to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord,” and what he told her.
I also don’t see any assumption they would believe her (remember there was this guy named Thomas?) You are reading into scripture assumptions that are not there.
 
What translation are you using? Mine says nothing about preaching to the Apostles or anyone else. It says Mary Magdalene was to go and tell and so she did:
:Jesus said to her,“Stop holding on to me, 10 for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” 18 Mary of Magdala went and announced to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord,” and what he told her.
I also don’t see any assumption they would believe her (remember there was this guy named Thomas?) You are reading into scripture assumptions that are not there.
Actually I disagree with you here.
  1. I think it’s a cop-out to say “Jesus only told Mary to tell the Apostles, and not preach.” There’s no difference. Jesus entrusted a woman to declare to His all-male Apostles that He was to ascend to the Father. Also, to say that you don’t see any assumption that the Apostles would believe Mary seems to question the good judgement of the Lord - do you assume that Jesus couldn’t find anyone better and so settled with Mary to deliver the news of His resurrection?
  2. Thomas didn’t believe what the Apostles told him of Christ… read it over.
This is my thought process at the moment… unless you (anyone else) can clarify to the contrary.
 
  1. I think it’s a cop-out to say “Jesus only told Mary to tell the Apostles, and not preach.”
Actually my dear friend, I will have to disagree with you here. That is not a cop-out, it is scripture. Interpret it as you want, I prefer to read what it says.
There’s no difference. Jesus entrusted a woman to declare to His all-male Apostles that He was to ascend to the Father.
Because he wanted it to specifically be a woman or because the faith of the woman (remember Mary Magdalene was not the only woman at the Tomb) never faltered?
Also, to say that you don’t see any assumption that the Apostles would believe Mary seems to question the good judgment of the Lord - do you assume that Jesus couldn’t find anyone better and so settled with Mary to deliver the news of His resurrection?
You my dear friend made the statement “with the implicit assumption that they will believe her…”. I don’t see that in scripture, sorry.

Further, if I look at Luke, I see clearly that the Apostles *did not *initially believe what the woman had told them:But at daybreak on the first day of the week they took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. They found the stone rolled away from the tomb; but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. While they were puzzling over this, behold, two men in dazzling garments appeared to them. They were terrified and bowed their faces to the ground. They said to them, "Why do you seek the living one among the dead? He is not here, but he has been raised. Remember what he said to you while he was still in Galilee, that the Son of Man must be handed over to sinners and be crucified, and rise on the third day."And they remembered his words. The women were Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Mary the mother of James; the others who accompanied them also told this to the apostles, but their story seemed like nonsense and they did not believe them. But Peter got up and ran to the tomb, bent down, and saw the burial cloths alone; then he went home amazed at what had happened.
If we read all four Gospels, we see that both Jesus (John) and Angels (Mark, Matthew, Luke) tell woman (not just Mary Magdalene) that Jesus has risen. Again, I see this not so much as our Lord choosing these woman so much as their faith being rewarded by being the first to know of the resurrection.
  1. Thomas didn’t believe what the Apostles told him of Christ… read it over.
Sorry, I don’t think you can have it both ways. Scripture says Thomas was not with the Apostles when Jesus came to them (John 20:24) but it does not say Thomas was missing when Mary told the Apostles what Jesus had told them (John 20:18). If the implicit assumption is that the Apostles would believe Mary, why would Thomas not believe her?

I think what Scripture tells us is that it was the women who were first to the tomb, and as the result of that were the first to learn of the resurrection. They went and told the Apostles (hey, who could keep that a secret?). If the Apostles had been first to the tomb, they would have found out for themselves.

By the way, to go back to your OP:
Why do we not allow women to preach? (I know Paul says women are not to preach in Church, but Christ doesn’t seem to have a problem with women and their being entrusted to preach - and about His glorious Resurrection no less!)
Jesus in no way entrusts the woman to preach. He entrusts them to tell his Apostles what they saw.

And to be clear, if by preaching you mean giving homilies at Mass, woman are not allowed to do that because Jesus declared that Holy Orders are not open to them. If by preaching you mean proclaiming the good news at conferences, leading Bible Study, etc. then the Church does allow women to do this.

My apologies, maybe I am lost in the weeds here - what specifically are you asking again?
 
For your consideration:

Women do preach in the Church…e.g.,
The Gospel Of Mark by Mary Healy…
in the series**…Catholic Commentary on Sacred Scripture**
by **Baker Academic Press **
is a terrific example of (a woman) preaching…Ms. Healy is superb…I love her preaching on Mark’s Gospel…it is simply masterful…exquisit insights!

But she is just not doing it…in or from…the pulpit during the liturgy of the Word ( at Mass)…which the Church has deemed inappropriate except by ordained ministers who are designated by the Church and can be…in persona Christi…and it is only the ordained…bishops, priests or deacons…who can fulfill that role.

I do believe that linguistically and by natural reason…there is a significant difference between *“telling” or “saying”…and…“preaching”…*it seems intuitive that the two are significantly different…Jesus is clear…He did not say “preach”…He is looking for Faith…not followers who can be persuaded by an eloquent and/or persuasive preacher…in my opinion.

Lastly…do you believe in the Church’s authority on this question/issue…this is the “truth teller”…the real issue you must wrestle with. Pray on it…the only real answer to your question!

Other than that…women can and do preach the Good News of the Lord Jesus Christ…always have…and always will!

Pax Christi
 
Jesus first appears to a woman, and entrusts her to preach the Good news of His resurrection to His Apostles, with the implicit assumption that they will believe her…

Why do we not allow women to preach? (I know Paul says women are not to preach in Church, but Christ doesn’t seem to have a problem with women and their being entrusted to preach - and about His glorious Resurrection no less!)

Help!?
You are obviously making up your own translation. Scripture says nothing about Mary Magdalene being sent to preach to the Apostles and “say/tell” and “preach” most certainly do NOT mean the same thing.

D-R Bible:

17 Jesus saith to her; Do not touch me, for I have not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren,** and say to them**; I ascend to my Father and to your Father, to my God and your God.

18 Mary Magdalene cometh, and telleth the disciples; I have seen the Lord, and these things he said to me.
 
I guess it all depends on your definition of preaching. To me, preaching has the connotation of public proclaimation. St. Mary Magdalen’s proclamation of Christ’s resurrection to the apostles was more of a private thing than public. Preaching also has the connotation of giving a sermon, a speech intended for religious or moral instruction, especially a formal, carefully prepared, speech. I don’t think St. Mary Magdalen’s proclamation of Christ’s resurrection can really be characterized as a sermon.

Nonetheless, Catholics sometimes refer to St. Mary Magdalen as ‘the apostle to the apostles.’ Remember that apostle means one who is sent (on a special mission).
 
Nonetheless, Catholics sometimes refer to St. Mary Magdalen as ‘the apostle to the apostles.’ Remember that apostle means one who is sent (on a special mission).
Todd - I have never heard her referred to as that. Would you know if that is an old tradition or from a writing of one of the Church Fathers. I am just curious - and it may lend some clarification to the way the OP sees her in the scripture passage.
 
Todd - I have never heard her referred to as that. Would you know if that is an old tradition or from a writing of one of the Church Fathers. I am just curious - and it may lend some clarification to the way the OP sees her in the scripture passage.
Its neither scriptural nor tradition that I’m aware of.
 
There is certainly a difference between “preaching” and being ordained and conducting mass. Women can do pretty much everything else outside of the priesthood and hierarchy — they can be lectors, cantors, sisters, eucharistic ministers, etc. And yes, they can preach and tell the good news.

I think “preaching” has gotten confused because of the Protestant reformation and how the “preacher” is often the head of their church. There is nothing particularly sacred about preaching, but distributing sacraments is a different matter.
 
Actually I disagree with you here.
  1. I think it’s a cop-out to say “Jesus only told Mary to tell the Apostles, and not preach.” There’s no difference. Jesus entrusted a woman to declare to His all-male Apostles that He was to ascend to the Father. Also, to say that you don’t see any assumption that the Apostles would believe Mary seems to question the good judgement of the Lord - do you assume that Jesus couldn’t find anyone better and so settled with Mary to deliver the news of His resurrection?
  2. Thomas didn’t believe what the Apostles told him of Christ… read it over.
This is my thought process at the moment… unless you (anyone else) can clarify to the contrary.
There is a big difference, preaching the Gospel is to bring it to those who have never heard it, particularly in this day and age.

Jesus merely informed Mary, to tell the chosen 12 (11 now) that he has risen, and that he will (eventually) be going to heaven. But not before he personally encounters them, for instance on the road to emmaus.

So what you are doing is twisting the scirptures to say something they don’t say… Scriptures would go on to very explicitly build the case as to why women can’t be priests, St. Paul who went to the 3rd level of heaven, and had a personal encounter with Christ the likes of which none of us can imagine built much of this case against women preists.

Would you suggest that God is so careless as to select men to be his Apostles who would, at the very first oppertunity, twist the teaching to disallow something you claim Christ told Mary to do? I think not… Women can’t be priests, there for they can’t “preach” in the sense you are using here. They can very much “preach” in another very important sense. If you want to know what I"m talking about, turn on Mother Angelica Live on EWTN.
 
Would it be possible to conduct a service where a male priest distributes the sacraments but a woman gives a homily?
 
Would it be possible to conduct a service where a male priest distributes the sacraments but a woman gives a homily?
No, it is not possible. Only the Priest or Deacon can give the homily, no lay person can do so ever.
 
No, it is not possible. Only the Priest or Deacon can give the homily, no lay person can do so ever.
The precise wording from the GIRM.

66. The Homily should ordinarily be given by the priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to the deacon, but never to a lay person.65 In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate.

nccbuscc.org/liturgy/current/revmissalisromanien.shtml
 
The precise wording from the GIRM.

66. The Homily should ordinarily be given by the priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to the deacon, but never to a lay person.65 In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate.

nccbuscc.org/liturgy/current/revmissalisromanien.shtml
Thank you. But what is the rationale for this? The priest stands in for Christ as to the sacraments. He does not do so as to the homily, surely.
 
Canon Law:

Can. 767 §1 The most important form of preaching is the homily, which is part of the liturgy, and is reserved to a priest or deacon. In the course of the liturgical year, the mysteries of faith and the rules of christian living are to be expounded in the homily from the sacred text.
 
Jesus only told Mary to tell the Apostles, and not preach." There’s no difference.
this post just to give a little more perspective…

Greek has specific words both for ‘saying’ and for ‘preaching’
what’s used in 20.17 is eipe/εἰπὲ , an aorist imperative verb from ‘lego’ (in different forms found 1024 times in NT) meaning ‘say’,
so that εἰπὲ αὐτοῖς means ‘say to them’…Mary was told to say to them…

Preaching on the other hand is from ‘kerruso’ (in differernt forms found 61 times in NT),
for example in 2 Tim 4:2, uses the aorist imperative verb form κήρυξον /keruxon meaning ‘preach’
so that the beginning of 4:2 reads:
κήρυξον τὸν λόγον meaning ‘preach the word’

preaching can also be found in verb forms of euagglizw
(sort of like eu-angel, meaning good-angel, or good-message, which becomes good-news, if active then, preach-the-good-news)
for example, 1 Corinthians 1:17
here the four words together ‘to-preach-the-Gospel’
is from one Greek word εὐαγγελίζεσθαι / euaggelizesthai a present infinitive verb
so that 1:17
οὐ γὰρ ἀπέστειλέν με Χριστὸς βαπτίζειν ἀλλὰ εὐαγγελίζεσθαι
reads: “for Christ sent me not to baptize but to-preach-the-gospel”

so ‘kerruso’ and ‘euagglizw’ are used for ‘preaching’, ‘preaching-the-gospel’ but forms of ‘lego’ are not (none that I can think of).
 
Thank you. But what is the rationale for this? The priest stands in for Christ as to the sacraments. He does not do so as to the homily, surely.
I think it’s because this wasn’t decided for the purpose of excluding women specifically. To me it makes total sense to disallow “just anyone” from preaching a homily at Mass. It should be someone who has been through seminary and is qualified to lead the people, rather than someone misleading the congregation by preaching their own opinions. So only ordained ministers can preach, which necessarily excludes women, but not simply because of their gender, it’s because they aren’t ordained. And yes, they “aren’t ordained” because of their gender but that’s per God’s decision. It seems like we make everything about our modern “civil rights” concerns when in reality the formation of the church was for a so much bigger purpose.

I know this post is old, just wanted to give my two cents.
 
Actually I disagree with you here.
  1. I think it’s a cop-out to say “Jesus only told Mary to tell the Apostles, and not preach.” There’s no difference. Jesus entrusted a woman to declare to His all-male Apostles that He was to ascend to the Father. Also, to say that you don’t see any assumption that the Apostles would believe Mary seems to question the good judgement of the Lord - do you assume that Jesus couldn’t find anyone better and so settled with Mary to deliver the news of His resurrection?
You may disagree but that doesn’t make you correct. There is no commission to preach there at all, unlike Matthew 28:19-20 where Our Blessed Lord specifically tells the apostles, ***"[19] Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, [20] teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." ***

Look here at the context…
  1. Thomas didn’t believe what the Apostles told him of Christ… read it over.
Irrelevant. your girl wasn’t there either of those times, now was she? :nope: So then there was no commission to preach given by Christ to any women. The church knows this and that’s why it has never and will never ordain women.
This is my thought process at the moment… unless you (anyone else) can clarify to the contrary.
Consider it clarified.
Why can’t women be ordained priests within the Catholic Church?
 
You may disagree but that doesn’t make you correct. There is no commission to preach there at all, unlike Matthew 28:19-20 where Our Blessed Lord specifically tells the apostles, ***"[19] Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, [20] teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." ***

Look here at the context…
Irrelevant. your girl wasn’t there either of those times, now was she? :nope: So then there was no commission to preach given by Christ to any women. The church knows this and that’s why it has never and will never ordain women.Consider it clarified.
Why can’t women be ordained priests within the Catholic Church?
In case you didn’t realise it you are responding to a post written in 2011.
 
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