John 20 : 19 - 23

[The_Wizard]

In this passage, if my thinking is correct, we have Jesus instituting the sacrament of penance by giving the power to forgives sins. To whom did He give the power? The passage says He appear to the “disciples” which is a larger group then the “apostles”. I ask this because a friend thinks this passage gives all “Christians” the power to forgive sins. His logic is: we are all called to forgive those who sin against us (even though they do not ask for forgiveness, are not sorry and do not repent and continue to sin against him); So when he forgives that person God forgives that person (even though they do not ask for forgiveness, are not sorry and do not repent and continue to sin against GOD). Am I wrong in thinking that for God to forgive sin one must ask for forgiveness, be sorry for offending God, turn away from sin and resolve to reform one’s life?

 

[Neofight]

Yes, apostles are disciples but not all disciples are apostles. Vs 16, Christ tells Mary to tell his brethren and by brethren he is talking of the disciples who are the apostles. So it is the apostles and not all disciples he is giving the power to forgive sins. But also, all Christians to receive forgiveness of their sins need to forgive their neighbors for wrong doings against them. So forgive your brother, and God will forgive your sins through the sacrament,

 

[The_Wizard]

Neofight,

I am not following your understanding of the passage. John 20: 19 specifically mentions “disciples” and there is no mention of “brethren/brothers” or “apostles” in the passage. How can we infer that the apostles are the only ones given the power to forgive sins from this passage?

 

[TimothyH]

John does not use the word Apostle in his Gospel. He uses the word disciple exclusively.

John singles out the Apostles only two times in his Gospel, using the phrase “The twelve”.

*Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also wish to go away?” Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life; and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.” Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was to betray him. (John 6:66-71)

**Now Thomas, one of the twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came. *(John 20:24)

The two times John references “the twelve” are when Jesus explains that his flesh is true food and to state that “one of the twelve” was not there when Jesus breathed on them and gave them the power to forgive sins. Sometimes with John it isn’t what he says but where he says it.

James 5 says that the prayer of the Presbyter will “save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven.” (cf James 5:15)

-Tim-

 

[COPLAND_3]

Verse 20:24 shows that the context of the disciples was the twelve, which leaves no room for doubt. But even at that, ‘disciples’ was at times used interchangably with the twelve apostles, and used in a general sense. Scripture does that often with many words. Sometimes ‘God’ is used when the ‘Father’ is specifically meant. Or spirit is used when specifically the Holy Spirit is meant. Church is used also in a general sense or specific congregation is intended.

 

[Neofight]

Neofight,

I am not following your understanding of the passage. John 20: 19 specifically mentions “disciples” and there is no mention of “brethren/brothers” or “apostles” in the passage. How can we infer that the apostles are the only ones given the power to forgive sins from this passage?

That’s because you are reading one or two verses and taking them literally. The Church believes scripture has to be taken into context (by reading before and after the passage in question, and by historical and literary context, as seen in other comments on John’s use of “disciple”).

Literal interpretation is dangerous. It leads to “cherry picking” scripture; something fundamentalist Protestants do to argue against Catholic doctrine.