John 20:23

[coleraine]

John 20:23, in the words of Christ, reads:

      *"If you forgive the sins of any they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained"

to me Jesus is saying “i give you the ability, through being me on earth, to forgive people.(confession)”

what do you guys think of this verse? how do protestants argue against it? i mean does their SS not work here, or what?

 

[foundthelight]

John 20:23, in the words of Christ, reads:

      *"If you forgive the sins of any they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained"*

to me Jesus is saying “i give you the ability, through being me on earth, to forgive people.(confession)”

what do you guys think of this verse? how do protestants argue against it? i mean does their SS not work here, or what?

From the Zondervan NIV Bible Commentary;

22-23 For this ministry Jesus provided the Holy Spirit and the commission to proclaim the forgiveness of sins. These are linked together for a new ministry. This was the initial announcement of which Pentecost was the historic fulfillment. The descent of the Spirit on the church at Pentecost brought the proclamation by Peter to his hearers: “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven” (Ac 2:38). The words of Jesus emphasize that the Holy Spirit is not bestowed on the church as an ornament but to empower an effective application of the work of Christ to the entire human race.
The commission to forgive sins is phrased in an unusual construction. Literally, it is: “Those whose sins you forgive have already been forgiven; those whose sins you do not forgive have not been forgiven” (similarly also Mt 16:19; see comments). God does not forgive people’s sins because we decide to do so, nor does he withhold forgiveness because we will not grant it. We announce it; we do not create it. This is the essence of salvation. And all who proclaim the Gospel are in effect forgiving or not forgiving sins, depending on whether the hearer accepts or rejects the Lord Jesus as the Sin-Bearer

This is a typical attempt to explain away the plain words of Christ. It is a Protestant tradition.

 

[marthagreys]

This verse was one of the “crossroads” for me in making the decision to convert to the Catholic faith. A Southern Baptist preacher’s daughter, I had an answer for almost every question that any religion could throw at me as to why we were right and they were wrong. When I was going through the conversion struggle, this verse kept coming up, and try as I might I couldn’t dismiss it. I lost track of how many strong Protestant pastors I asked to give me an explanation for this verse, and not one of them could do it. A few of them beat around the bush and talked in circles around it, and a couple said that they didn’t have a specific answer (nobody has all the answers) but they knew for sure the Catholic interpretation was wrong, etc., but not one could give an adequate answer.

 

[thistle]

John 20:23, in the words of Christ, reads:

      *"If you forgive the sins of any they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained"*

to me Jesus is saying “i give you the ability, through being me on earth, to forgive people.(confession)”

what do you guys think of this verse? how do protestants argue against it? i mean does their SS not work here, or what?

Douey-Rheims Bible, Haydock Commentary:

Ver. 23. Whose sins you shall forgive,[2] &c. These words clearly express the power of forgiving sins, which, as God, he gave to his apostles, and to their successors, bishops and priests, to forgive sins in his name, as his ministers, and instruments, even though they are sinners themselves. For in this, they act not by their own power, nor in their own name, but in the name of God, who as the principal cause, always remitteth sins. This is generally allowed to be done by God’s ministers in the sacrament of baptism, as to the remission of original sin; and the Catholic Church has always held the same of God’s ministers, in the sacrament of penance. (See the Protestant Common Prayer Book, in the Visitation of the Sick.) — Whose sins you shall retain, they are retained: by which we see, that to priests is given a power to be exercised, not only by forgiving, but also by retaining; not only by absolving and loosing, but also by binding, by refusing, or deferring absolution, according to the dispositions that are found in sinners, when they accuse themselves of their sins. From hence must needs follow an obligation on the sinner’s part, to declare, and confess their sins in particular, to the ministers of God, who are appointed the spiritual judges, and physicians of their souls. A judge must know the cause, and a physician the distemper: the one to pronounce a just sentence, the other to prescribe suitable remedies. (Witham) — See here the commission, stamped by the broad seal of heaven, by virtue of which, the pastors of Christ’s Church absolve repenting sinners upon their confession. (Challoner)

 

[Church_Militant]

John 20:23, in the words of Christ, reads:

      *"If you forgive the sins of any they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained"*

to me Jesus is saying “i give you the ability, through being me on earth, to forgive people.(confession)”

what do you guys think of this verse? how do protestants argue against it? **i mean does their SS not work here, or what?**My friend, it almost never works. If it did, they wouldn’t believe SS to begin with.
Catholic Confession

“I Find No Sacraments In the Bible” he said.

 

[catholic1seeks]

Read this:

catholic.com/library/Forgiveness_of_Sins.asp

 

[catholic1seeks]

There’s a flaw to this:

“to me Jesus is saying”…

**what do you guys think **of this verse? …

Did Jesus want you or me to decide, by our own interpretation, or did he establish a Church?

 

[Church_Militant]

There’s a flaw to this:

Did Jesus want you or me to decide, by our own interpretation, or did he establish a Church?C1s, you probably need to ease up off that. What Coleraine is saying is that that is what he sees in just reading the passage, not that he even remotely infers that he is an authority for interpretation.

He’s asking other more experienced Catholics to help him be sure that he understands it right in the context of what the church is teaching.

I think you over-reacted.

 

[coleraine]

There’s a flaw to this:

Did Jesus want you or me to decide, by our own interpretation, or did he establish a Church?

i was just saying what first came to my mind when i read it. i was asking what they thought of it like what comes to their mind when they read it. i know it has one meaning.

 

[catholic1seeks]

i was just saying what first came to my mind when i read it. i was asking what they thought of it like what comes to their mind when they read it. i know it has one meaning.

**Okay. I didn’t mean to be harsh. **

I wasn’t trying to be. Sometimes I have to reassure myself that there IS TRUTH available. Where do we find it? Let’s ask Paul: “[The Church] is the pillar and bulwark of truth.”

 

[coleraine]

**Okay. I didn’t mean to be harsh. **

I wasn’t trying to be. Sometimes I have to reassure myself that there IS TRUTH available. Where do we find it? Let’s ask Paul: “[The Church] is the pillar and bulwark of truth.”

yah i know, thanks. hey why dont you guys come over to my thread in non-catholic religions, “ask about christianity/catholicism”? i think i got something going.

 

[Church_Militant]

yah i know, thanks. hey why dont you guys come over to my thread in non-catholic religions, “ask about christianity/catholicism”? i think i got something going.

Sure, why not…

 

[coleraine]

Sure, why not…

ok cool. but it looks like its taking a while for “reformed” and his little buddy to respond. i think i know what they are going to say, and i have a plan.