John 20:29 fideist?

[Geremia]

How is Jesus in John 20:29 (“blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed”) not advocating fideism? Thanks

 

[fhansen]

How is Jesus in John 20:29 (“blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed”) not advocating fideism? Thanks

Well, because fideism denies or precludes the necessity and role of grace, I would think.

 

[Geremia]

How is Jesus in John 20:29 (“blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed”) not advocating fideism? Thanks

I would answer that one does not have to see, as with a bodily eye or with internal senses, in order to know something is reasonable. Having faith is reasonable because there has never be a genuine contradiction between knowledge faith affords and knowledge obtained from natural reason.

 

[tonyrey]

How is Jesus in John 20:29 (“blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed”) not advocating fideism? Thanks

It was obviously easier for those who had seen Jesus to believe but it does not follow that those who have not seen Him have no reason for believing…

 

[Blue_Horizon]

I would answer that one does not have to see, as with a bodily eye or with internal senses, in order to know something is reasonable. Having faith is reasonable because there has never be a genuine contradiction between knowledge faith affords and knowledge obtained from natural reason.

Geremia
I am confused as to why you ask this question and then answer it yourself…unless perhaps you are not totally convinced of that answer.

If so, why not continue along the brave path you have begun?

 

[Geremia]

Geremia
I am confused as to why you ask this question and then answer it yourself…unless perhaps you are not totally convinced of that answer.

If so, why not continue along the brave path you have begun?

Here’s St. Thomas Aquinas’s commentary on John 20:

When Christ said, Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed, he was praising the readiness of others to believe; and this applies especially to us. He says, “have believed” rather than “shall believe” because of the certitude [of his knowledge].

Luke seems to say the contrary: “Blessed are the eyes which see what you see” (Lk 10:23). Thus, those who have seen are more blessed that those who have not seen. I answer that blessedness is of two kinds. One is the actual state of blessedness, which consists in God’s reward, where the better one sees the happier, the more blessed, he is. In this respect, the eyes that see are blessed, because this is the reward of grace. The other blessedness is the hoped‑for blessedness, which is based on one’s merits. And in this case the more one can merit the more blessed he is. And, the one who believes and does not see, merits more than one who believes when he sees.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

Geremia
I am confused as to why you ask this question and then answer it yourself…unless perhaps you are not totally convinced of that answer.

If so, why not continue along the brave path you have begun?

Here’s St. Thomas Aquinas’s commentary on John 20:

Sorry, I am not sure how this relates to my question?

To recap my question: readers may be confused that you answered your own question above so quickly. This suggests you may not be fully convinced by your above answer and seek further advice OR your start-up question wasn’t really a question at all but some sort of discussion teaser? Or perhaps something else? Thanks.

 

[Geremia]

Sorry, I am not sure how this relates to my question?

To recap my question: readers may be confused that you answered your own question above so quickly. This suggests you may not be fully convinced by your above answer and seek further advice OR your start-up question wasn’t really a question at all but some sort of discussion teaser? Or perhaps something else? Thanks.

It was my attempt at an answer that I in no way find conclusive.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Horizon
Geremia
I am confused as to why you ask this question and then answer it yourself…unless perhaps you are not totally convinced of that answer.

If so, why not continue along the brave path you have begun?

Here’s St. Thomas Aquinas’s commentary on John 20:
Quote:
When Christ said, Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed, he was praising the readiness of others to believe; and this applies especially to us. He says, “have believed” rather than “shall believe” because of the certitude [of his knowledge].

Luke seems to say the contrary: “Blessed are the eyes which see what you see” (Lk 10:23). Thus, those who have seen are more blessed that those who have not seen. I answer that blessedness is of two kinds. One is the actual state of blessedness, which consists in God’s reward, where the better one sees the happier, the more blessed, he is. In this respect, the eyes that see are blessed, because this is the reward of grace. The other blessedness is the hoped‑for blessedness, which is based on one’s merits. And in this case the more one can merit the more blessed he is. And, the one who believes and does not see, merits more than one who believes when he sees.

OK, perhaps you could succintly summarise in your own words what you are unsure about then we can get a better handle on your issue of concern?

One thing I have never been sure about is whether the apostles (and the 500) actually “believed” in the Resurrection. By seeing the Risen Christ they seem to have had direct proof/evidence of the Resurrection which fact leaves no room for belief (but we who have not seen must believe in this particular teaching).

Thus the “belief” of the apostlers/500 must be something more and beyond their direct and factual certainty wrt Resurrection. In Thomas’s case he jumped from fact of Resurrection to a “high belief” that Jesus is “Lord and God”. He seemsto be praised for a high content belief that went beyond lesser (unspecified) belief proclamations of those Resurrection witnessing apostles before him. I wonder what “lesser belief” these other apostles proclaimed after factually experiencing the Resurrected Christ. Messiahship?