John 21:11. 153 fish. Father George Rutler comments on the meaning of 153 fish

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At this point I am not expecting anyone to accept that my position is true.
For the most part I have not yet substantiated My claims.

I am just asking that you suspend judgment until you’ve seen all the Facts. And accept the possibility that it could be correct.
God has revealed to me that there’s a whole lot more that i don’t know than what I do know. But in his mercy he is always given me good teachers and I knew who to trust. I cannot think of anything that I had to correct in order to conform to the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Has God been so kind to reveal to you that you also do not know everything ?

And so possibly my position is correct ?
 
JohnR77 said:
At this point I am not expecting anyone to accept that my position is true.
For the most part I have not yet substantiated My claims.

I am just asking that you suspend judgment until you’ve seen all the Facts. And accept the possibility that it could be correct.
God has revealed to me that there’s a whole lot more that i don’t know than what I do know. But in his mercy he is always given me good teachers and I knew who to trust. I cannot think of anything that I had to correct in order to conform to the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Has God been so kind to reveal to you that you also do not know everything ?

And so possibly my position is correct ?
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At this point in time - and at best: I very seriously doubt it.

It reminds of the Occultic: Numerology, Jewish Kabbala, Enneagram, Bible Code by a Michael Brosnin

And This following is what I’ll stick with…

The Understanding of that large Catch can only be gleaned via the entire context of that Post Resurrection event - which ends with Jesus Renaming Simon as Kefa/Cephas/Rock/Peter - and giving the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven to him

Jesus and the Miraculous Catch of Fish​

4 Early in the morning, Jesus stood on the shore, but the disciples did not realize that it was Jesus.

5 He called out to them, “Friends, haven’t you any fish?”

“No,” they answered.

6 He said, “Throw your net on the right side of the boat and you will find some.” When they did, they were unable to haul the net in because of the large number of fish.

7 Then the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord!” As soon as Simon Peter heard him say, “It is the Lord,” he wrapped his outer garment around him (for he had taken it off) and jumped into the water. 8 The other disciples followed in the boat, towing the net full of fish, for they were not far from shore, about a hundred yards.

When they landed, they saw a fire of burning coals there with fish on it, and some bread.

10 Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish you have just caught.” 11 So Simon Peter climbed back into the boat and dragged the net ashore. It was full of large fish, 153, but even with so many the net was not torn.

Jesus said to them, “Come and have breakfast.” None of the disciples dared ask him, “Who are you?” They knew it was the Lord. 13 Jesus came, took the bread and gave it to them, and did the same with the fish. 14 This was now the third time Jesus appeared to his disciples after he was raised from the dead.

Jesus Instates Peter​

15 When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?”

“Yes, Lord,” he said, “you know that I love you.”

Jesus said, “Feed my lambs.”

16 Again Jesus said, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”

He answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.”

Jesus said, “Take care of my sheep.”

17 The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”

Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.”

Jesus said, “Feed my sheep.
 
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EndTimes said:
It reminds of the Occultic: Numerology, Jewish Kabbala, Enneagram, Bible Code by a Michael Brosnin
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Well, as I said before, It has nothing to do with any of that.
And further, I am claiming that it teaches what every faithful Catholic already believes, that all wisdom comes from Jesus.

Anyway, I added another image and more arguments to that point.
see


Happy Easter Friday,

Maybe next year we can attend Mass and hear that Gospel.
We only have to wait one more year.

Peace,
john
 
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EndTimes said:
It reminds of the Occultic:
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While Satan can use numbers, God can also use Numerology to reveal things to us. After all, it was God Himself who revealed the number 666 to us for example, and that is the number of the AntiChrist. On the Contrary, the number of Mary’s Rosary is 555 (5 joyful 5 sorrowful 5 glorious). This is why Genesis 3:15 is 3:15 (3 sets of 15 mysteries) because Jesus will use Mary’s Rosary to defeat the evil one.

Also, another things to note, when Pope Benedict announced His resignation it was exactly 5:55 when lightening struck the Vatican. Perhaps Our Lady is currently making use of Pope Benedict through His current rosaries, on behalf of the Church, to hold back the evil one.

The number of Jesus is 888, the number of the Antichrist is 666 and the number of Mary and Her Rosary is 555 (and also 153 in her complete traditional 15 mystery rosary).
 
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Lion_IRC said:
an interesting calculation which results in 666
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The Web site said that The numbers 666 calculates to 153 And so satan is caught in the net and thrown away. But what does that mean ?
He could have used any number that’s divisible by 3 And a positive integer and It will calculate to 153 By using that method of calculation.
So it proves nothing.

It is an interesting feature of the number 153 is that it is the limit of the following algorithm:
.
A. Take a random positive integer, divisible by three.
B. Split that number into its base 10 digits.
C. Take the sum of their cubes.
D. Go back to step 2 and resume sequence of instructipns.
.

An example, starting with the number 84:

.
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.
.

There are many other interesting characteristics about 153. But we have to look elsewhere to see the solid connection that John was alluding to wisdom.
.
Note :
I could have used this as a week supporting argument that 153 alludes to wisdom but my criteria and standards as much higher and much more demanding.
.

I offer the following , but more as a question than anything else.

All wisdom comes from God.
And all
trinitarian numbers ( As if there were such a thing.)
point to 153.

.
The Greeks were great mathematicians. They probably knew about this property of 153.
.
Could John have been making an allusion to The Trinity as well ?

To God be the glory in all things.
Praise Jesus Christ our Savior.
John
 
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We discover something quite interesting about this number when we look at how many people, in the Gospel accounts, Jesus personally blessed.
The book of Mark records Christ, on three occasions, personally blessed three people. These events were the healing of a man with an unclean spirit (Mark 1:23), healing a man who was deaf (Mark 7:32) and making whole another who was blind (Mark 8:22).
Matthew, however, writes that on 23 occasions Jesus blessed a total of 47 people. Some of those whom he blessed included a leper (Matthew 8:2), a non-Israelite woman and her daughter (Matthew 15:22), Mary Magdalene (Matthew 27:56) and Joseph of Arimathaea (Matthew 27:57).
Luke writes that on 14 occasions 94 people were blessed. They include the seventy disciples sent out to preach and heal (Luke 10:1), ten lepers cleansed at the same time (Luke 17:12) and Zaccheus (Luke 19:2).
Lastly, the apostle John bears record of eight incidents where nine people were helped by Jesus. Nicodemus (John 3:1), the woman accused of adultery (John 8:11) and Lazarus (John 11) are among those personally touched by the Savior of mankind.
All told, the Lord directly blessed 153* people in 48 separate incidents!
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*(Emphasis mine)

This is spectacular…
  • The fact that Jesus tells Peter to be a fisher of men
  • Jesus blesses 153 people
  • Those 153 people who are blessed are the 153 fish that Jesus caught through Peter and that Peter caught because of Jesus
This is Jesus’ invitation to Peter (again) to go out and be a fisher of men, not just a fisherman. Peter is not alone through this, and, more importantly, should not do it alone. This is Jesus implying that He will send His spirit to help make disciples of the world (which we see not too long after in the Pentecost).

[Anyways, that’s just my take on it]
 
JohnR77 said:
Could John have been making an allusion to The Trinity as well ?
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My answer, by the way, is I really doubt that he meant for his readers to make any connection to that formula of calculation.

Any answer to why 153 Fish that makes John out to be a haphazard communicator where maybe some were able to figure it out and a good number of other Christians just “did not see the math” has to be wrong.
John was one of the four great evangelists. He did not leave the communication of his message to chance. The correct answer to why 153 Fish has to be an answer that was obvious to the readers of his time and place. The Gospel was not a code for the intellectuals, but a clear message for the common folk like me.
 
I always thought it was a symbol of the Rosary, 153 Hail Mary Prayers (in a full rosary), which certainly are used for the salvation of souls. Hence the big catch of fish.
 
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ColoradoCatholic said:
I always thought it was a symbol of the Rosary, 153 Hail Mary Prayers (in a full rosary), which certainly are used for the salvation of souls. Hence the big catch of fish.
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I love the rosary by the way.
I pray it every day.

Sacred scripture his Polyvalent. It has many levels of different meanings And we will probably never finish learning all of those means until we get To heaven. I stated at the beginning the purpose of this thread was to discuss John’s primary meaning. They did not have the rosary back then so I don’t think John could have alluded to it. As a secondary meaning, yes God could have Intended it.
If you wish to discuss what God intended or secondary meanings,. I think it would be most appropriate to start a new thread .
John
 
John wrote his Gospel to reveal not to conceal.
His primary meaning would not have been hidden in a code.
 
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Paul_Edwards said:
St John of Revelation disagrees
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666 has naught to do with occultic interpretative Numerology

666 is a statement of fact. It’s the number of a name… It shall be 666

There is nothing within the Church’s Magisterium
re: 153 as being a number of significance beyond what it is:
153 fish means 153 fish.
 
EndTimes said:
666 has naught to do with occultic interpretative Numerology

666 is a statement of fact. It’s the number of a name… It shall be 666

There is nothing within the Church’s Magisterium
re: 153 as being a number of significance beyond what it is:
153 fish means 153 fish
Click to expand...
The key word is “occultic”, we can either do it by Gods power(as a gift) or by the devils power(the occult). As St John made clear in 13:8, we need to try and understand what was meant, we must go out of our way (or those who are here in the end must at least). That’s why he said “Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding, let him count the number of the beast. For it is the number of a man: and the number of him is six hundred sixty-six.” If it was just a number “plain and simple fact” the first sentence would’ve been omitted. As Daniel said in 12:4, his prophecies were sealed up until the end. Some things are not meant to be understood until the necessary time.

As to the 153 fish there was many saints who believed there was a meaning behind 153. I hope you are not suggesting that they were using the occult, they were instead using a combination of Gods power and common sense. Of course it is not part of the magisterium, it’s not necessary for our salvation to understand nor part of the deposit of faith, it’s just a reality that some have come to realize. It’s not a “de facto part of the catholic faith” of course not, it’s just an interesting observation and discovery. Many Catholics believe St Joseph was assumed into heaven and never committed personal sin, that is another “pious belief” Catholics can hold but which is not “binding” so as to speak. Just because something is not part of the magisterium does not make is automatically against the magisterium or incorrect. If it was part of the magisterium we wouldn’t need to discuss it on here we would’ve all accepted it a long time ago.
 
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Paul_Edwards said:
As to the 153 fish there was many saints who believed there was a meaning behind 153
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Be that as it may… I stick w/Jesus… Scripture… Sacred Tradition … Church Teachings… period.

That Authoritatively supersedes anything which any saint may have said…

Continuing to say, “153, 153, 153”
sans any attempt to convey any speculative in-depth useful meaning . ain’t my cuppa

I’ve found the pearl of great worth… Who continues to trump useless debunked attempts at “logic”
 
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This is John 21:11 in Glagolitic Script, Old Church Slavonic language.
I will shortly give translation of the main words here.
John
 
153 fish is the number of fish caught by the Apostles - After Jesus’ Resurrection
when, Jesus (unrealized as yet) suggested they toss their Net to ‘the right side of their boat’.
It literally means 153 fish… It was a HUGE (over the top) number of Fish…
And From that… it was they that they recognized Jesus… .
___

Afterward Jesus appeared again to his disciples, by the Sea of Galilee.

It happened this way: Simon Peter, Thomas , Nathanael from Cana in Galilee, the sons of Zebedee, and two other disciples were together.

“I’m going out to fish,” Simon Peter told them, and they said, “We’ll go with you.”
So they went out and got into the boat, but that night they caught nothing.

Early in the morning, Jesus stood on the shore, but the disciples did not realize that it was Jesus.

He called out to them, “Friends, haven’t you any fish?”

“No,” they answered.

He said, “Throw your net on the right side of the boat and you will find some.”
When they did, they were unable to haul the net in because of the large number of fish.

Then the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord!” As soon as Simon Peter heard him say, “It is the Lord,” he wrapped his outer garment around him (for he had taken it off) and jumped into the water.

The other disciples followed in the boat, towing the net full of fish, for they were not far from shore, about a hundred yards.

When they landed, they saw a fire of burning coals there with fish on it, and some bread.

Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish you have just caught.”

So Simon Peter climbed back into the boat and dragged the net ashore. It was full of large fish,
153, but even with so many the net was not torn.

Jesus said to them, “Come and have breakfast.”
None of the disciples dared ask him, “Who are you?” They knew it was the Lord.

Jesus came, took the bread and gave it to them, and did the same with the fish.

This was now the third time Jesus appeared to his disciples after he was raised from the dead.
…

IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARD - Jesus Re-Confirms Simon as the Rock of The Church

REF: John 21: Complete

_
 
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