John 6:60 questions

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How can we know for certain that they left because they thought Jesus was speaking literally? What if Jesus was speaking symbolically and they assumed he was speaking literally?

(I’m sorry if this isn’t the right spot for someone questioning and needing help)
 
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Because Jesus did not say “hey, let me clear this up for you”, in fact He spoke in even stronger language.
 
a) why would they take it literally? That’s weird. They didn’t seem to take the vine and branches metaphor literally

b) Jesus didn’t tell them “Wait there guys, I was only kidding”

c) In fact Jesus went harsher. Apparently at first He used a Greek word that sounded more like “to consume” and then upon the first objection he used “eat” and the third time “gnaw”.

Good luck. This is the right spot. You can PM with further questions if you want 🙂
 
If He had been speaking symbolically, it would only make sense that He would have explained what He meant and not let them leave in confusion. Instead, He let them leave because they DID understand He meant it literally, but they rejected it as too hard to believe. Much like most of the Protestant world rejecting the True Presence as too hard to believe.
 
If he were speaking symbolically he would have clarified just as he did after he told his parables. Instead, He doubled down. John 6:64-65 is very illuminating in this regard.
 
FallenCatholic said:
What if Jesus was speaking symbolically and they assumed he was speaking literally?
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From the earliest times the Church has taken Jesus at his word on this matter . He was speaking literally .

“The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?” (1 Cor 10;16) .

“For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, ‘This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.’ In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, ‘This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.’ For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.”
(1 Cor. 11:23-27) .

“Consider how contrary to the mind of God are the heterodox in regard to the grace of God which has come to us. They have no regard for charity, none for the widow, the orphan, the oppressed, none for the man in prison, the hungry or the thirsty. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, the flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His graciousness, raised from the dead.”(Ignatius of Antioch).

We have been taught that the food consecrated by the Word of prayer which comes from him, from which our flesh and blood are nourished by transformation, is the flesh and blood of that incarnate Jesus."(Justin Martyr).

‘Eat My Flesh,’ He says, ‘and drink My Blood.’ The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients. He delivers over His Flesh, and pours out His Blood; and nothing is lacking for the growth of His children. O incredible mystery!",(Clement of Alexandria).

So long as the prayers of supplication and entreaties have not been made, there is only bread and wine. But after the great and wonderful prayers have been completed, then the bread is become the Body, and the wine the Blood, of our Lord Jesus Christ. '(Athanasius of Alexandria).

And Tradition continues through the centuries…
 
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Here is what I don’t get. If I pray with all that I have in me that the Father would take away my unbelief or to increase my faith, why wouldn’t He answer that. Why would this continue to be a lifelong struggle?
 
Because it is a lifelong struggle. I have been Catholic since 4 weeks of age. I have been taught over and over the tenets of the faith. As I grew and learned, prayed, and listened eventually it all came to me. Some at 35, some more at 45, more at 55 and more and more in greater quantities in my 60’s and even 70’s. It is a question of remaining faithful and believing God will answer everything, in HIS time.
God is God, not a cosmic slot machine or vending machine; you know say a prayer, ask for something, and voila, instant jackpot. HE doesn’t work that way.
All I can offer is continue to pray, don’t be so hard on yourself, and listen. God speaks in very soft voices. And when you least expect it.
 
FallenCatholic said:
How can we know for certain that they left because they thought Jesus was speaking literally? What if Jesus was speaking symbolically and they assumed he was speaking literally?
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Even if he was speaking symbolically they still would have found the teaching hard to swallow, and would have walked away.

It’s not really possible for them to have understood what Jesus was saying literally because they didn’t know what exactly Jesus was talking about. They had enough of a sense of what Jesus was saying to scratch their heads and walk away. At the time, I don’t even think Peter understood what Jesus was saying.
 
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FallenCatholic said:
Here is what I don’t get. If I pray with all that I have in me that the Father would take away my unbelief or to increase my faith, why wouldn’t He answer that. Why would this continue to be a lifelong struggle?
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I can’t begin to know the will of God, but what I can say is that faith is a lifelong struggle. There will be trials and there will be moments of doubt. Even the holiest men and women have doubted. That is a part of our nature.

Submit to the will of God. Trust in him rather than trusting in your ability to reason it all out. Reason only gets you so far. Faith carries you the rest of the way.

“Faith is the realization of what is hoped for and evidence* of things not seen.” Hebrews 11:1
 
The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?”
Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. - John 6:52-53

This would have been a good time to correct his listeners he was speaking symbolically only. But no, as such, he reiterates after their quarreling they must eat his flesh and drink his blood.
 
I sometimes wish I had - more unbelief about me - lol
Because - my faith, back then, was that much more stronger.
My faith was rewarded, too, by the fruits of the spirit.

As long as your not a critical, easily swayed, suspicious, person.
Me, I’m somewhat gullible. I think many things are the truth ! His - will.
It’s brought on a tremendous trust in Jesus…that some have the audacity to snicker at.
Not a bad trade off, though.
 
I was reading John 6 some more.

“What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:62‬ ‭NASB‬‬

John 6:62 What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before? | New American Standard Bible - NASB 1995 (NASB1995) | Download The Bible App Now

What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?
www.bible.com

I am being really honest right now, as in, transparent. It is easy to say I would believe I saw Jesus ascend to where he was before because I am not faced with the reality of that, being a witness to that occurring. What if my lack of belief in the Real Presense also means I wouldn’t believe other things described here? Incredibly sad to think about.
 
FallenCatholic said:
What if my lack of belief in the Real Presense also means I wouldn’t believe other things described here?
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So… if you were an apostle, having seen Jesus arrested, and knew of his crucifixion, and then saw him in post-resurrection appearances, and then saw him rise into the heavens… you’re saying that you would still say, “nah… I can’t believe he’s God”…?
 
FallenCatholic said:
How can we know for certain that they left because they thought Jesus was speaking literally? What if Jesus was speaking symbolically and they assumed he was speaking literally?

(I’m sorry if this isn’t the right spot for someone questioning and needing help)
Click to expand...
Lets simply use logic.

If Jesus was speaking symbolically, He would have at least cleared things with the Apostles. But He didn’t. He turned to Peter and said “will you leave me too?”

Logic dictates that if they left simply because Jesus failed to give a good sermon, He would have clarified and fixed it.

Logic dictates that the only reason for Him NOT to clarify was if He was already being a clear as possible.

God Bless
 
I want you to think about the context.
Why would a Jewish person ever speak of eating blood symbolically? Why bring it up unless you really, truly meant it?
 
He does answer it, but, we must be ready to believe. That is an act of our own will.
 
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