John 6:63?

[Returnee]

Where in any of the supper accounts is eternal life mentioned by Jesus? I have read through all of them and i don’t see any mention of such a thing. Maybe i missed it and if so perhaps you can show me the chapter and verse where it is.

This is a most unique criticism of the Catholic belief regarding John 6:50 onward. I’ve never heard anyone use such a criticism to circumvent the belief in transubstantiation.

However, it doesn’t seem to really make much sense to me. After all, what you’re saying here is, “The teaching of John 6:50 onward is too difficult for me, so I want validation of this teaching elsewhere in Scripture to convince me that it’s real.”

The problem with this line of reasoning is two fold: One, it implicitly acknowledges the Catholic position in John 6, but simply says, “I don’t want to believe that so I’m going to look for reasons NOT to believe”. Much like some of the disciples in the very same discourse.

Two, and this is perhaps more fatal to your line of reasoning, it’s akin to saying, “Unless a teaching appears more than once in Scripture, I’m not going to believe it”. This is a dangerous hermeneutic to employ, as there are a good number of teachings that don’t appear in Scripture more than once, but yet are quite orthodox in character.

For example, in the Book of Matthew (Matt 28:11-15), we read how a guard assigned to the tomb of Jesus was bribed by some Jews to tell others that the body of Jesus was stolen during the night of the Resurrection. This account doesn’t appear anywhere else in Scripture. Are we to reject the notion that the body of Jesus was stolen, is false? That is, are we to believe someone stole Jesus’ body? Seems to me that’s a pretty important piece of the Resurrection account, but it’s only in Matthew and no where else.

Or another, also in Matthew, (Matt 26:3-10), we read that Judas died. No where else do we read he died, much less how, so are we to believe he didn’t die?

In John 19:31-37, we read about the soldier’s piercing of Jesus’ side, and how blood and water flowed out from the wound. No where else do we read that. And it’s a pretty important passage, not only for the “blood and water” aspect, a foundation of many beliefs in Christianity, not just Catholicism, but also for having fulfilled the prophecy related in John 19:36-37. However, if we are to only believe something that appears 2 times (or more) in Scripture, then we must reject that account as well, which means questioning Jesus’ role as Messiah, much less the saving power of both His Blood (the Eucharist) AND “water” (Baptism)

I could go on, as there are numerous other examples of unique stories in one Gospel account when compared to others. The point should be clear though: Simply because an account only occurs once in the Gospels (or even in all of Scripture, the point is still the same there), doesn’t mean it’s “not important” or has no link to any other part of Scripture.

What do Protestants always say? All Scripture is God breathed, and is profitable for correction, reproof and instruction. 2 Tim 3:16-17. I think that’s good advice here, as it means that all Scripture is of equal weight, and thus, the frequency of a particular account has no bearing on its “importance”, or validity.

 

[389670]

Originally Posted by 389670
Where in any of the supper accounts is eternal life mentioned by Jesus? I have read through all of them and i don’t see any mention of such a thing. Maybe i missed it and if so perhaps you can show me the chapter and verse where it is.

 

[Cattitude]

Where in any of the supper accounts is eternal life mentioned by Jesus? I have read through all of them and i don’t see any mention of such a thing. Maybe i missed it and if so perhaps you can show me the chapter and verse where it is.

This is how the word “eat” is used in John 6–Spiritually to feed by faith and be sustained in a spiritual and eternal life (John 6:50, 51, 53). To drink is meant figuratively not literally.
Jesus does not allude in this passage to the last supper nor is it ever mentioned that by eating the supper you will have eternal life.

Hang on a second!

Isn’t eternal life part of the New Covenant?

Mark 14: 22 While they were eating, he took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, and said, “Take it; this is my body.” 23 Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, and they all drank from it. 24 He said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed for many. 25 Amen, I say to you, I shall not drink again the fruit of the vine until the day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”

(See also Mark 14:24, Luke 22:20)

Isn’t that the connection to John 6 & eternal life?

He says this IS my body - not this is a symbol of my body. He is the sacrifice of the new covenant which frees us from death and grants us eternal life.

 

[NotWorthy]

All i’m pointing at this point is that there is no connection made by any writers of the Scriptures with John 6 and the supper accounts. Rather people assume its there. When you compare what Jesus is teaching in John 6 on eternal life for example there is not mention of it in the supper accounts. This is significant ommission in the supper accounts.

 

[Coder]

Some non-Catholics may be taught by others how to interpret these Scriptures and they may not be sure about what we are saying. To any such people, remember that your relationship with Jesus is direct and personal. You can always pray directly to Jesus to guide you to the truth about the Eucharist.

 

[AlegreFe]

What does spiritual mean?

“Spiritual” is REAL not symbolic.

Take this into consideration; God spoke before all this Eucharistic language knowing very well that we are flesh and for us to have life we are to abide in Jesus Christ so that God’s Spirit can abide in us and give us life;
Genesis 6:3 “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh"

Joel 2:28 “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh"
Jesus speaks. And he certainly speaks of this with HIS flesh & blood as opposed to OUR flesh.
“The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

"For a spirit does not have flesh and bones…”

“That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”

“It is the Spirit who gives life”
How do we abide in Him? Easy. Jesus told us one of the ways or else we have no life in us. He pours out His Spirit on us by the Holy Eucharist. We all know that is not the only way but Jesus makes it clear that if we do not eat His flesh we have no life in us.

John 6:55-57
55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and
I in him.
57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me.
Scripture can certainly interpret itself. If you read all those verses together it will present you with a bigger picture. You should try that. Read Scripture on the WHOLE don’t just read one verse without taking into consideration other verses;
“My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh. And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. It is the Spirit who gives life. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me."

 

[AlegreFe]

I’d like to hear more about your comment about eating the lamb

Foreshadowing of the Requirement to Consume the Sacrifice

Gen. 22:9-13 - God saved Abraham’s first-born son on Mount Moriah with a substitute sacrifice which had to be consumed. This foreshadowed the real sacrifice of Israel’s true first-born son (Jesus) who must be consumed.

Exodus 12:5 - the paschal lamb that was sacrificed and eaten had to be without blemish. Luke 23:4,14; John 18:38 - Jesus is the true paschal Lamb without blemish.

Exodus 12:7,22-23 - the blood of the lamb had to be sprinkled on the two door posts. This paschal sacrifice foreshadows the true Lamb of sacrifice and the two posts of His cross on which His blood was sprinkled.

Exodus 12:8,11 - the paschal lamb had to be eaten by the faithful in order for God to “pass over” the house and spare their first-born sons. Jesus, the true paschal Lamb, must also be eaten by the faithful in order for God to forgive their sins.

Exodus 12:43-45; Ezek. 44:9 - no one outside the “family of God” shall eat the lamb. Non-Catholics should not partake of the Eucharist until they are in full communion with the Church.

Exodus 12:49 - no uncircumcised person shall eat of the lamb. Baptism is the new circumcision for Catholics, and thus one must be baptized in order to partake of the Lamb.

Exodus 12:47; Num. 9:12 - the paschal lamb’s bones could not be broken. John 19:33 - none of Jesus’ bones were broken.

Exodus 16:4-36; Neh 9:15 - God gave His people bread from heaven to sustain them on their journey to the promised land. This foreshadows the true bread from heaven which God gives to us at Mass to sustain us on our journey to heaven.

Exodus 24:9-11 - the Mosaic covenant was consummated with a meal in the presence of God. The New and eternal Covenant is consummated with the Eucharistic meal - the body and blood of Jesus Christ under the appearance of bread and wine.

Exodus 29:33 – God commands that they shall eat those things with which atonement was made. Jesus is the true Lamb of atonement and must now be eaten.

Lev. 7:15 - the Aaronic sacrifices absolutely had to be eaten in order to restore communion with God. These sacrifices all foreshadow the one eternal sacrifice which must also be eaten to restore communion with God. This is the Eucharist (from the Greek word “eukaristia” which means “thanksgiving”).

Lev. 17:11,14 - in the Old Testament, we see that the life of the flesh is the blood which could never be drunk. In the New Testament, Jesus Christ’s blood is the source of new life, and now must be drunk.

Gen. 9:4-5; Deut.12:16,23-24 - in these verses we see other prohibitions on drinking blood, yet Jesus commands us to drink His blood because it is the true source of life.

2 Kings 4:43 - this passage foreshadows the multiplication of the loaves and the true bread from heaven which is Jesus Christ.

2 Chron. 30:15-17; 35:1,6,11,13; Ezra 6:20-21; Ezek. 6:20-21- the lamb was killed, roasted and eaten to atone for sin and restore communion with God. This foreshadows the true Lamb of God who was sacrificed for our sin and who must now be consumed for our salvation.

Neh. 9:15 – God gave the Israelites bread from heaven for their hunger, which foreshadows the true heavenly bread who is Jesus.

Psalm 78:24-25; 105:40 - the raining of manna and the bread from angels foreshadows the true bread from heaven, Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 53:7 - this verse foreshadows the true Lamb of God who was slain for our sins and who must be consumed.

Wis. 16:20 - this foreshadows the true bread from heaven which will be suited to every taste. All will be welcome to partake of this heavenly bread, which is Jesus Christ.

Sir. 24:21 - God says those who eat Him will hunger for more, and those who drink Him will thirst for more.

Ezek. 2:8-10; 3:1-3 - God orders Ezekiel to open his mouth and eat the scroll which is the Word of God. This foreshadows the true Word of God, Jesus Christ, who must be consumed.

Zech. 12:10 - this foreshadows the true first-born Son who was pierced for the sins of the inhabitants of the new Jerusalem.

Zech. 13:1 - on the day of piercing, a fountain (of blood and water) will cleanse the sins of those in the new House of David.

 

[Coder]

Wow! Both previous posts are excellent!