John 6:66

[whatistruth]

I hope everyone is reading with attention. In all 4 Gospel accounts, Judas leaves Jesus at the Last Supper in the Upper Room. In John’s Gospel 6, Judas leaves Jesus from this teaching. If you can not see this, I truly question anyone if they have actually read the Gospel, it is directly in front of you. Anyone to deny this is responding exactly as the Pharisees did when Jesus taught them this doctrine. This teaching is 2000 years old, how can you not see this. I swear we are repeating history! Read your history, are we so blind? The more time changes, the more they stay the same. Read the Gospel please!

whatistruth

Where are the protestants in response to The Supper of Emmaus? looks like the Eucharist to the Church after all. Come swim with me, we have a big boat and plenty of life vests for those who do not know how to swim. Jesus will save you every time

whatistruth

 

[SyCarl]

You sound like John Calvin. John 6 and Catholicism is never a problem she is a blessing

This doesn’t address the concern I raised. Do all who receive obtain eternal life? If not then Jesus cannot be speaking completely literally.

 

[whatistruth]

This doesn’t address the concern I raised. Do all who receive obtain eternal life? If not then Jesus cannot be speaking completely literally.

Did he not say “I will raise you on the Last Day”, over this doctrine?

whatistruth

 

[Mosacked]

Where are the protestants in response to The Supper of Emmaus? looks like the Eucharist to the Church after all. Come swim with me, we have a big boat and plenty of life vests for those who do not know how to swim. Jesus will save you every time

whatistruth

whatistruth,

Thinking aloud…

John 6:56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.

If a crooked and evil man joins in the Holy Communion (for some unknown reason), does it mean Jesus remains in him and he in Jesus?

So, the evil crooked man enters eternal life because he joined in the HC?

.

 

[whatistruth]

whatistruth,

Thinking aloud…

John 6:56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.

If a crooked and evil man joins in the Holy Communion (for some unknown reason), does it mean Jesus remains in him and he in Jesus?

So, the evil crooked man enters eternal life because he joined in the HC?

.

return to the thread please

 

[whatistruth]

return to the thread please

brothers, where are you? lets get this resolved

 

[whatistruth]

whatistruth,

Thinking aloud…

John 6:56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.

If a crooked and evil man joins in the Holy Communion (for some unknown reason), does it mean Jesus remains in him and he in Jesus?

So, the evil crooked man enters eternal life because he joined in the HC?

.

Mosacked, where are you and what happened our participants?

 

[shawn38]

Yes, Judas was indeed there, but at this point Jesus points out that he will betray him, he does so again at the last supper, where he does indeed betray him. With this by itself and the fact that the last supper occured exactly three years afterwards shows great links between the discourse in John 6 and the last supper, read my previous post to Radical where I list my reasons.

Peace

We don’t know when Judas quit believing or if he ever did. Considering Jesus considered Judas a devil, it’s a safe assumption.

Feast of the Tabernacles - 29 ad
John 6 occurs in Jesus’ last year of ministry, but at least 4 months prior to the last supper. Judas at this point Satan had not entered him.

Satan had not entered Judas and no deal with the chief priests had been made at this point.

Passover - 30 ad
Luke 22:3 Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve. 4And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus.

The 5,000 - We don’t know what happened to them. John 6:14 After the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus did, they began to say, “Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world.” 15Jesus, knowing that they intended to come and make him king by force, withdrew again to a mountain by himself.

The last supper “body and blood” - that’s been beat to death

 

[SyCarl]

You sound like John Calvin and John Knox. John 6 and Catholicism is never a problem, she is a blessing. They were both excommunicated from the Church over this but you are welcomed back.

Augustine also can be read as taking a receptionist view.

And thus He would have this meat and drink to be understood as meaning the fellowship of His own body and members, which is the holy Church in his predestinated, and called, and justified, and glorified saints and believers…For my flesh, says He, is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. For while by meat and drink men seek to attain to this, neither to hunger nor thirst, there is nothing that truly affords this, except this meat and drink, which does render them by whom it is taken immortal and incorruptible; that is, the very fellowship of the saints, where will be peace and unity, full and perfect… In a word, He now explains how that which He speaks of comes to pass, and what it is to eat His body and to drink His blood. He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, dwells in me, and I in him. This it is, therefore, for a man to eat that meat and to drink that drink, to dwell in Christ, and to have Christ dwelling in him. Consequently, he that dwells not in Christ, and in whom Christ dwells not, doubtless neither eats His flesh [spiritually] nor drinks His blood [although he may press the sacrament of the body and blood of Christ carnally and visibly with his teeth], but rather does he eat and drink the sacrament of so great a thing to his own judgment, because he, being unclean, has presumed to come to the sacraments of Christ, which no man takes worthily except he that is pure: of such it is said, Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

(Tractates on the Gospel of John. Tractate 26, Paragraphs 15, 17, &18)
newadvent.org/fathers/1701026.htm

You have failed to address the question whether Jesus means it when He says anyone who eats His flesh and drinks His blood has eternal life. If He does, and transubstantiation is true, then it must follow that if anyone, believer or not, receives at a Catholic mass he will have eternal life. The bread of life discourse must be read as a whole. Individual verses cannot just be plucked out of it.

 

[shawn38]

Judas leave this thread and website, you have already left the table of our Lord. You can proof text God all you want but it is time for protestants to leave this Catholic website who continue to attempt to prove her Truths untrue. The Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinty of Christ! if you want him, drop your 30 sheckles and come home, you are welcome at any time. What are you looking for? a protestant pastor that loves company and your money? In case most of you do not know who I am, I work at the largest protestant church in America. I have all the room to talk. John 6 brought me home to the Eternal City all because my former pastor could not answer John 6 or the “Supper of Emmaus” what is stopping you from swimming the Tiber?

whatistruth

You said,

“In all 4 Gospel accounts, Judas leaves Jesus at the Last Supper in the Upper Room. In John’s Gospel 6, Judas leaves Jesus from this teaching.”

The scriptures do not support that. Satan did not enter Judas until the Passover. John 6 occurred at least 4 months before at the Feast of the Tabernacles

 

[whatistruth]

We don’t know when Judas quit believing or if he ever did. Considering Jesus considered Judas a devil, it’s a safe assumption.

Feast of the Tabernacles - 29 ad
John 6 occurs in Jesus’ last year of ministry, but at least 4 months prior to the last supper. Judas at this point Satan had not entered him.

Satan had not entered Judas and no deal with the chief priests had been made at this point.

Passover - 30 ad
Luke 22:3 Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve. 4And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus.

The 5,000 - We don’t know what happened to them. John 6:14 After the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus did, they began to say, “Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world.” 15Jesus, knowing that they intended to come and make him king by force, withdrew again to a mountain by himself.

The last supper “body and blood” - that’s been beat to death

Read your bible Protestants! Judas left Jesus on the Eucharist. How many times are we going to repeat ourselves?

 

[whatistruth]

You said,

“In all 4 Gospel accounts, Judas leaves Jesus at the Last Supper in the Upper Room. In John’s Gospel 6, Judas leaves Jesus from this teaching.”

The scriptures do not support that. Satan did not enter Judas until the Passover. John 6 occurred at least 4 months before at the Feast of the Tabernacles

where are you? are you going down with the son of perdition or are you a follower of Jesus? 2000 years of the Eucharist not 500 since the reformation. **** or get off the pot protestors!

 

[whatistruth]

where are you? are you going down with the son of perdition or are you a follower of Jesus? 2000 years of the Eucharist not 500 since the reformation. **** or get off the pot protestors!

Do you not get it, the feast of tabernacles and passover in the Catholic Faith are one event. The Pascal mystery, what is it? the Crucifixion, Ressurection, and Ascension of Jesus are one event. The feast of taberncles and pasover to Catholics are one event! return to John 6 and Luke 24 Protestants!

 

[Melkite_Sword]

We don’t know when Judas quit believing or if he ever did. Considering Jesus considered Judas a devil, it’s a safe assumption.

Feast of the Tabernacles - 29 ad
John 6 occurs in Jesus’ last year of ministry, but at least 4 months prior to the last supper. Judas at this point Satan had not entered him.

Satan had not entered Judas and no deal with the chief priests had been made at this point.

Passover - 30 ad
Luke 22:3 Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve. 4And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus.

The 5,000 - We don’t know what happened to them. John 6:14 After the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus did, they began to say, “Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world.” 15Jesus, knowing that they intended to come and make him king by force, withdrew again to a mountain by himself.

The last supper “body and blood” - that’s been beat to death

You said that this occured 4 months before the last supper , where does it say that?, It clearly states that the mutiplication of the loaves happened when “The passover, the feast of the Jews was at hand”(John 6:4), it was during the passover that the last supper occured also “On the feast day of the Unleavened Bread…The Master says I will celebrate the passover with my disciples in your house” (Matt 26:17-18). I believe your confusing John 7:2 with John 6:4, by claiming it was during the feast of the tabernacles.
Your right we can’t know when Judas stopped following Jesus but the text seems to suggest it right after the discourse John 6:64, 70, this although is beyond the point, the point is this is the ONLY time before the last supper that Jesus suggests someone would betray him, the apostles fully understand this during the last supper, were they also come to fully understand the whole discourse of John 6:48-59.

Peace

 

[Melkite_Sword]

where are you? are you going down with the son of perdition or are you a follower of Jesus? 2000 years of the Eucharist not 500 since the reformation. **** or get off the pot protestors!

I understand where your coming from, but please calm down. Where not here to abuse each other, where here to introduce our protestant brothers and sisters to the fullness of truth. Remember we share more similarities in our faith then differences.

Peace

 

[shawn38]

Do you not get it, the feast of tabernacles and passover in the Catholic Faith are one event. The Pascal mystery, what is it? the Crucifixion, Ressurection, and Ascension of Jesus are one event. The feast of taberncles and pasover to Catholics are one event! return to John 6 and Luke 24 Protestants!

Feast of Tabernacle
to the Jews the feast of Tabernacles was always and primarily in commemoration of their forefathers’ indwelling in tents in the wilderness (Leviticus 23:43) and in thanksgiving for the permanent abode given them in the Promised Land, and later on, after the erection of the Temple, for a permanent place of worship (cf. 1 Kings 8:2; 12:32). The feast began on the fifteenth day of the seventh month, Ethanim of Tishri (about our September),

Passover
The feast of the Passover begins on the fourteenth day of Nisan (a lunar month which roughly corresponds with the latter part of March and the first part of April) and ends with the twenty-first.

Lets keep it in its proper context and time for when Judas betrayed Jesus it was before the resurrection.

These were clearly two distinct feasts. The dates were separated by 7 months (September to April). The reason for the feast was different too.

Now in modern time, the Catholic church may have combined them being that Jesus has become the Paschal sacrifice. I know that the uneaten consecrated bread is stored in the tabernacle. We have to keep it relative to the time for which we are dealing.

Where can I find that the Catholic church combined them? When did this occur?

 

[Melkite_Sword]

Feast of Tabernacle
to the Jews the feast of Tabernacles was always and primarily in commemoration of their forefathers’ indwelling in tents in the wilderness (Leviticus 23:43) and in thanksgiving for the permanent abode given them in the Promised Land, and later on, after the erection of the Temple, for a permanent place of worship (cf. 1 Kings 8:2; 12:32). The feast began on the fifteenth day of the seventh month, Ethanim of Tishri (about our September),

Passover
The feast of the Passover begins on the fourteenth day of Nisan (a lunar month which roughly corresponds with the latter part of March and the first part of April) and ends with the twenty-first.

Lets keep it in its proper context and time for when Judas betrayed Jesus it was before the resurrection.

These were clearly two distinct feasts. The dates were separated by 7 months (September to April). The reason for the feast was different too.

Now in modern time, the Catholic church may have combined them being that Jesus has become the Paschal sacrifice. I know that the uneaten consecrated bread is stored in the tabernacle. We have to keep it relative to the time for which we are dealing.

Where can I find that the Catholic church combined them? When did this occur?

Can we please keep this on the topic, I have cleared up the misunderstanding of the Feast of the Tabernacles and Passover regarding John 6, It occured on the passover. I understand your replying to someone, but please keep this on the topic.

 

[shawn38]

You said that this occured 4 months before the last supper , where does it say that?, It clearly states that the mutiplication of the loaves happened when “The passover, the feast of the Jews was at hand”(John 6:4), it was during the passover that the last supper occured also “On the feast day of the Unleavened Bread…The Master says I will celebrate the passover with my disciples in your house” (Matt 26:17-18). I believe your confusing John 7:2 with John 6:4, by claiming it was during the feast of the tabernacles.
Your right we can’t know when Judas stopped following Jesus but the text seems to suggest it right after the discourse John 6:64, 70, this although is beyond the point, the point is this is the ONLY time before the last supper that Jesus suggests someone would betray him, the apostles fully understand this during the last supper, were they also come to fully understand the whole discourse of John 6:48-59.

Peace

Good point. Thanks! This backs up the date even further to one year (Passover to Passover). If I misspeak, please let me know.

Yes, the feeding of the 5,000
John 6:4 The Jewish Passover Feast was near.

Jesus explains the bread of life. Judas had not betrayed Jesus yet. John 6:70 Jesus answered them: Have not I chosen you twelve; and one of you is a devil?

John 7:2 But when the Jewish Feast of Tabernacles (September) was near,

John 13:1 It was just before the Passover Feast (April). Jesus knew that the time had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father. It was at this Passover Satan entered Judas.

Lord’s Supper instituted.

John 13:26 Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.” Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon. 27As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.

God being omnipresent and creater of everything, Jesus could call him a devil and be accurate for time is not relative to Christ. For our sake though, it was nearly a year from the time Jesus said one is a devil and Satan entered Judas. Not much is known about Judas.

 

[whatistruth]

I understand where your coming from, but please calm down. Where not here to abuse each other, where here to introduce our protestant brothers and sisters to the fullness of truth. Remember we share more similarities in our faith then differences.

Peace

We have less in common. This Doctrine is too big for protestants to walk away from to say let’s focus on our similarities. Judas left Jesus over this Sacrament. How can it not be seen so clear? For those who do not know but St Thomas Aquinas wrote some of the best theology in the Truth on the Eucharist and from his writings Jesus appeared to him and stated, “Thomas, you have written well of me”. This actually happened. Jesus has nevered appeared to a non Catholic. Why? because of our participation in the Wedding Feast of the Lamb in his Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity present in the Eucharist. Until you disprove Jesus appearence to St Thomas Aquinas over the Eucharist, you must come to the altar. Your soul is too valuble to me and for sure Jesus.

whatistruth

 

[Melkite_Sword]

We have less in common. This Doctrine is too big for protestants to walk away from to say let’s focus on our similarities. Judas left Jesus over this Sacrament. How can it not be seen so clear? For those who do not know but St Thomas Aquinas wrote some of the best theology in the Truth on the Eucharist and from his writings Jesus appeared to him and stated, “Thomas, you have written well of me”. This actually happened. Jesus has nevered appeared to a non Catholic. Why? because of our participation in the Wedding Feast of the Lamb in his Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity present in the Eucharist. Until you disprove Jesus appearence to St Thomas Aquinas over the Eucharist, you must come to the altar. Your soul is too valuble to me and for sure Jesus.

Very true, and may I also add the countless Eucharistic miracles, where the host actually appears as human flesh and blood such as the 8th century miracle of Lanciano, the body and blood is still totally incorrupt to this day, heres the link for anyone interested: therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html