John 6 and Eucharist?

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SPOKENWORD:
Has anyone here seen Jesus Christ in the flesh walking around lately.? :confused: God Bless
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So God cannot exist physically anywhere unless He is walking around?

By that logic, a certain baby in a Bethlehem manger was not God. After all, he was not *walking around. *What about when Jesus was sleeping? Nobody saw Him *walking around *then. How about when He was on the cross? He couldn’t be *walking around *then either.

You did not answer my question. Is God incapable of existing physically anywhere besides heaven? **Is He incapable of existing, Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, in the Eucharist?
 
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VociMike:
But remember that we have no idea of the properties of His glorified body. We do know that He can be in our presence and we may not recognize Him. We know that He can appear through closed doors. Even from those few examples we can see that His glorified body is not like the bodies we posess, so it is a mistake for us to apply human “is it possible” tests to His glorified body.
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When Jesus did appear with His Glorified body people saw him physically.Jesus has taken His rightful position. He is now seated at the right hand of the Father interceding for us.His glorified body remains in heaven. :confused: God Bless
 
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SPOKENWORD:
When Jesus did appear with His Glorified body people saw him physically.Jesus has taken His rightful position. He is now seated at the right hand of the Father interceding for us.His glorified body remains in heaven. :confused: God Bless
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Yes, He is seated at the right hand of the Father. But to say he can’t be physically present elsewhere is to suggest that He is limited or finite…which He is not.
 
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kevb:
Yes, He is seated at the right hand of the Father. But to say he can’t be physically present elsewhere is to suggest that He is limited or finite…which He is not.
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God is God and of course He can do whatever He wants.But He has decided to take His rightful seat.If His flesh didn,t die here on earth then there was no sacrifice. 😉 God Bless
 
So, are we to believe that the entire Early Church Fathers, who (as far as we are know) unanimously believed in the Real Presence were wrong?

Notworthy
 
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SPOKENWORD:
God is God and of course He can do whatever He wants.But He has decided to take His rightful seat.If His flesh didn,t die here on earth then there was no sacrifice. 😉 God Bless
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Jesus died on Earth. He offered the perfect once-for-all Sacrifice. He is seated at the right hand of the Father. . . .

Mark Twain used to say that he did not have trouble with the difficult passages of Scripture, but rather that he had trouble with those passages of Scripture that were perfectly clear in their meaning. Does Jesus deliberately confuse? Why would he say to his own:

“But there are some of you that do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him. And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him. Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also wish to go away?” Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life; and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.”

Did they stay because they clearly understood his meaning? No. they stayed because they believed that Jesus was “the Holy One of God.” They did not understand what he meant by eating his flesh and drinking his blood, but they trusted the man whom they had come to know; they confided in the relationship he had built with them. They did not understand but they believed.

Those who left neither understood nor believed.

Spokes: You’re only one good confession away from the Person of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. C’mon home. Jesus is waiting for you.
 
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NotWorthy:
So, are we to believe that the entire Early Church Fathers, who (as far as we are know) unanimously believed in the Real Presence were wrong?

Notworthy
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Personally I believe it really doesn,t make a difference.Sometimes our understanding is not perfect. Things of the Spirit require faith.Receiving or not recieving communion will not keep anyone out of heaven.Are we missing out on some graces? Maybe. You say Physically ,I say Spiritually. :confused: God Bless
 
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mercygate:
Jesus died on Earth. He offered the perfect once-for-all Sacrifice. He is seated at the right hand of the Father. . . .

Mark Twain used to say that he did not have trouble with the difficult passages of Scripture, but rather that he had trouble with those passages of Scripture that were perfectly clear in their meaning. Does Jesus deliberately confuse? Why would he say to his own:

“But there are some of you that do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him. And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him. Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also wish to go away?” Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life; and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.”

Did they stay because they clearly understood his meaning? No. they stayed because they believed that Jesus was “the Holy One of God.” They did not understand what he meant by eating his flesh and drinking his blood, but they trusted the man whom they had come to know; they confided in the relationship he had built with them. They did not understand but they believed.

Those who left neither understood nor believed.

Spokes: You’re only one good confession away from the Person of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. C’mon home. Jesus is waiting for you.
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Yes Mercygate, Just like the appostles,I also believe that Jesus Words have eternall life.Its the Word that gives us eternal life for Jesus is the Word. 👍 God Bless
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Yes Mercygate, Just like the appostles,I also believe that Jesus Words have eternall life.Its the Word that gives us eternal life for Jesus is the Word. 👍 God Bless
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The Word who has commanded us to eat his flesh and drink his blood.

People who have a problem with the Real Presence, it seems to me, have a problem more with their own reason than with the Scripture. There is an intransigent materialism in rejecting the Real Presence.
 
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SPOKENWORD:
God is God and of course He can do whatever He wants.But He has decided to take His rightful seat.If His flesh didn,t die here on earth then there was no sacrifice. 😉 God Bless
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Of course His flesh died on earth…but His flesh was then resurrected after His sacrifice and is not bound by any limitations. When we receive the Eucharist, we receive the body of the resurrected Christ. It’s a mystery that takes a great faith to accept. We just have to trust and obey His words in the Bible to “take this (bread) and eat…this is My body”, etc…
Why would He say the bread was His body at the last supper if it really wasn’t?
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Personally I believe it really doesn,t make a difference.Sometimes our understanding is not perfect. Things of the Spirit require faith.Receiving or not recieving communion will not keep anyone out of heaven.Are we missing out on some graces? Maybe. You say Physically ,I say Spiritually. :confused: God Bless
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No, we say Spiritually AND Physically…just as we as humans are BOTH spiritual and physical. He wants to commune with us on ALL levels. Receiving the Eucharist is to make both physical and spiritual contact with God.
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Personally I believe it really doesn,t make a difference.Sometimes our understanding is not perfect. Things of the Spirit require faith.Receiving or not recieving communion will not keep anyone out of heaven.Are we missing out on some graces? Maybe. You say Physically ,I say Spiritually. :confused: God Bless
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So it really doesn’t matter that Muslims don’t understand things perfectly? LDS? JW’S? How far off from perfect understanding is it okay to go and still make it to heaven?

God Bless,
Maria
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Personally I believe it really doesn,t make a difference.Sometimes our understanding is not perfect. Things of the Spirit require faith.Receiving or not recieving communion will not keep anyone out of heaven.Are we missing out on some graces? Maybe. You say Physically ,I say Spiritually. :confused: God Bless
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Concrete example:

miracle - a marvellous event manifesting a supernatural act of God.

miracle - a marvellous event manifesting an act of God.

miracle - an event manifesting an act of God.

miracle - an event of God

miracle - an event

How far from perfect can we go before all meaning of the event is lost and truth becomes meaningless?

God Bless,
Maria
 
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SPOKENWORD:
When Jesus did appear with His Glorified body people saw him physically.Jesus has taken His rightful position. He is now seated at the right hand of the Father interceding for us.His glorified body remains in heaven. :confused: God Bless
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So then Jesus is not really present whenever two or three are gathered in His name?
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Has anyone here seen Jesus Christ in the flesh walking around lately.? :confused: God Bless
?
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Gosh this sounds familiar but I can’t remem…wait…uh oh… it’s coming back to me…
“But Lord, WHEN DID WE SEE YOU naked, hungry, etc etc?” And ya’know what he said to them? You’re busted! Go from me into the fiery pit prepared for the devil and his buddies…
Now of course I don’t include you in that clan, but you must be careful about what you say…don’tcha think?
What if we had rephrased the question like this, “Is anyone here certain that they have not encountered Jesus in the flesh?” Would that change the answer?

Phil
 
Originally Posted by NotWorthy
So, are we to believe that the entire Early Church Fathers, who (as far as we are know) unanimously believed in the Real Presence were wrong?
Notworthy
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SPOKENWORD:
Personally I believe it really doesn,t make a difference… :confused: God Bless
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Interesting comment, but it in no way answers the question posed to you. It is yes or no - either we are to believe they are wrong or we are not to believe it. Your refusal to answer the question directly and, instead, express your unsubstantiated opinion on an unrelated topic speaks volumes: you don’t seem quite prepared to commit to walking either path with conviction. I understand it’s like 20 to 1 here, but you chose to respond - dodging the issue accomplishes nothing. Why don’t you come clean and answer the question with a solid yes or no and then you can digress.

Grumpy
 
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Philthy:
Gosh this sounds familiar but I can’t remem…wait…uh oh… it’s coming back to me…
“But Lord, WHEN DID WE SEE YOU naked, hungry, etc etc?” And ya’know what he said to them? You’re busted! Go from me into the fiery pit prepared for the devil and his buddies…
Now of course I don’t include you in that clan, but you must be careful about what you say…don’tcha think?
What if we had rephrased the question like this, “Is anyone here certain that they have not encountered Jesus in the flesh?” Would that change the answer?

Phil
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Excellent point.
 
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SPOKENWORD:
God is God and of course He can do whatever He wants.But He has decided to take His rightful seat.If His flesh didn,t die here on earth then there was no sacrifice. 😉 God Bless
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You lack a basic understanding of how we view the mass. We are not recrucifying Jesus. Rather we are making a past event present. This practice comes to us from the Jews. The passover (incidentally where Christ instituted the eucharist) is a zikkaron event. The eucharist is the fulfillment of the passover. It is hardly surprising that they would both be zikkaron events. That we partake of his flesh now hardly means he can’t have died as you seem to claim.
Personally I believe it really doesn,t make a difference.Sometimes our understanding is not perfect. Things of the Spirit require faith.Receiving or not recieving communion will not keep anyone out of heaven.Are we missing out on some graces? Maybe. You say Physically ,I say Spiritually. God Bless
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Is that what the Bible says? “Amen, Amen I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.” Granted, someone with invincible ignorance may yet be saved, but the same could be said about whether or not someone believes in Christ.

Please address the scriptural issues. Explain any other possible meaning of the text. And please do look up the tradition of zikkaron events in the Jewish faith. It helps make sense of the sacrifice of the mass.
 
I have another related question regarding the Eucharist. How can the Bread and Wine at the Last Supper be the body and blood of Christ when Christ Himself was physically present? Also, if the Mass is the representation of the Sacrifice at Calvary, than was the Last Supper a represenation of the Sacrifice at Calvary, particularly since Christ had not died on the Cross yet?

God Bless
 
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