John 6: Bread of Life - Why did they leave after Jesus said the flesh was of no avail?

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John 6 said:
34 So they said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” 35 17 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst. 36 But I told you that although you have seen (me), you do not believe. 37 Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me, 38 because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me. 39 And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should not lose anything of what he gave me, but that I should raise it (on) the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him (on) the last day.” 41 The Jews murmured about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven,” 42 and they said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph? Do we not know his father and mother? Then how can he say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” 43 Jesus answered and said to them, “Stop murmuring 18 among yourselves. 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw him, and I will raise him on the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets: ‘They shall all be taught by God.’ Everyone who listens to my Father and learns from him comes to me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God; he has seen the Father. 47 Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died; 50 this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.” 52 The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?” 53 Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54 Whoever eats 19 my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.” 59 These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. 60 20 Then many of his disciples who were listening said, “This saying is hard; who can accept it?” 61 Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, “Does this shock you? 62 What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 21 63 It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh 22 is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him. 65 And he said, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.” 66 As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him. 67 Jesus then said to the Twelve, “Do you also want to leave?” 68 Simon Peter answered him, “Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God.” 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you twelve? Yet is not one of you a devil?” 71 He was referring to Judas, son of Simon the Iscariot; it was he who would betray him, one of the Twelve.

I find it fascinating that many of His disciples left him shortly after Jesus said the flesh was of no avail. Jesus emphasized over and over again that He was bread that we could eat. Yet then He said the flesh is of no avail and then the former disciples left shortly thereafter. What was it about saying the flesh is of no avail that made that the final straw to have them return to their former way of life? Any comments or thoughts regarding that aspect of the Bread of Life Discourse would be greatly appreciated.
 
I find it fascinating that many of His disciples left him shortly after Jesus said the flesh was of no avail. Jesus emphasized over and over again that He was bread that we could eat. Yet then He said the flesh is of no avail and then the former disciples left shortly thereafter. What was it about saying the flesh is of no avail that made that the final straw to have them return to their former way of life? Any comments or thoughts regarding that aspect of the Bread of Life Discourse would be greatly appreciated.
I don’t think that the words the flesh is of no avail is what caused the disciples to leave. I think that they finally understood that Jesus was telling them that they literally had to eat His body and blood to have eternal life and that is why they left. They couldn’t understand how they were to do this and probably wouldn’t till after the last supper.
Just my thoughts
JeanneH
 
63 It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh* is of no avail**. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe." Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him. 65 And he said, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.”*

**The people that left thought he was telling them that they had to eat his flesh (fingers, arms, etc.) **
The Eucharist, as we see at the Last supper is a spiritual mystery that can only be accepted by those to whom this truth is revealed - “spirit and life”. Their fleshly or earthly way of understanding cannot grasp this truth. It profits nothing in the end.

Many Protestants take verse 63 as Jesus speaking symbolically or metaphorically because they can’t see either. It is our fervent prayer that ALL will eventually come to see this truth.
 
Jesus says "“It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.” I take this to be a reaffirmation of his entire discourse: the words he has spoken are absolutely true–they are spirit and life. In the next sentence he says “But there are some of you who do not believe.” Those are the ones who walked away.
 
I think you need to include the previous verse…
61 Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, "Does this shock you? 62 What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 21 63 It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh 22 is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe."
Verse 62 is a rhetorical question that Jesus answers for them in verse 63.

In 62, Jesus questions how - if they don’t take him literally about eating His flesh, which will be hidden under the species of bread - how will they react when they see Him miraculousy ascending to Heaven in unhidden fashion? Will they murmur about that, too?

In 63, Jesus gives them the answer that the flesh is no avail, because, even as they will be watching Him ascend to heaven with their own eyes, their minds will reject this vision as illogical and impossible - the flesh literally would not believe its own eyes. It would require an equal assent of faith, by the will, that it wasn’t a mere hallucination.

Thus, to understand and believe what He is saying about being the Bread of Life come down from heaven to be consumed, requires the life-giving action of the spirit, which supercedes human logic that says no man can be eaten, flesh and blood, in an unbloody manner. Unless you consume His flesh, you shall not have life within you. And only the assent of the will to the sanctifying grace of the Holy Spirit, in spite of this inscrutable mystery, can cause one to believe.

And that’s when they left. They willed not to believe.
 
“The Flesh is of no avail”.

In John 6, when Jesus speaks of the flesh giving eternal life, He says, “MY FLESH or The Flesh of the Son of Man”.

Throughout the New Testament, “The Flesh” means living in this world and not the next. So, when Jesus says, “The Flesh is of no avail”, He simply is reaffirming that we can’t get to heaven except through him.
 
Throughout the New Testament, “The Flesh” means living in this world and not the next. So, when Jesus says, “The Flesh is of no avail”, He simply is reaffirming that we can’t get to heaven except through him.
Do you have some supporting Scriptural references to support your thesis?

I don’t doubt your conclusions, but it would help with the support of your conclusions. Thanks! 🙂
 
Here is what the footnote in the bible says about verse 63.

[63] Spirit . . . flesh: probably not a reference to the eucharistic body of Jesus but to the supernatural and the natural, as in
John 3:6. Spirit and life: all Jesus said about the bread of life is the revelation of the Spirit.
 
Here is what the footnote in the bible says about verse 63.

[63] Spirit . . . flesh: probably not a reference to the eucharistic body of Jesus but to the supernatural and the natural, as in
John 3:6. Spirit and life: all Jesus said about the bread of life is the revelation of the Spirit.
Which Bible translation is that from? A footnote from an incomplete protestant Bible?
 
Which Bible translation is that from? A footnote from an incomplete protestant Bible?
Almost right. It is from the NAB where else. Another off center footnote from the NAB. Not my favorite translation. I don’t care if it comes from the bishops. They can keep it as far as I am concerned.
Jeanne
 
Almost right. It is from the NAB where else. Another off center footnote from the NAB. Not my favorite translation. I don’t care if it comes from the bishops. They can keep it as far as I am concerned.
Jeanne
It’s sad but the NAB is the Bible they gave me at RCIA last year…Great way to start learning about the faith, eh? I’m not a big fan of it either…If you don’t read any of the footnotes, it will keep the groans to a minimum though lol
 
It’s sad but the NAB is the Bible they gave me at RCIA last year…Great way to start learning about the faith, eh? I’m not a big fan of it either…If you don’t read any of the footnotes, it will keep the groans to a minimum though lol
I hope I don’t get in trouble here but sometimes I think that there are factions trying to destroy Catholicism from within starting with the NAB.
Jeanne
 
I agree with tm30!

Jesus is contrasting the Spirit’s ability to enlighten our minds and human reason’s inability to comprehend revealed truths apart from faith.

**The Advocate, the holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name–he will teach you everything and remind you of all that (I) told you. (14:26)

You judge by appearances, but I do not judge anyone. (8:15)**

It is our earthbound perspective that is profitless in the face of divine mysteries.
 
:bowdown2: I Thank God for your wonderful insight. I’ve understood that His body and blood were transliterated (i think that is right) into bread or the eucharist and wine. But the way you explained the rest of it was just great. I makes much more sense to me now. Thanks Cora
I think you need to include the previous verse…

Verse 62 is a rhetorical question that Jesus answers for them in verse 63.

In 62, Jesus questions how - if they don’t take him literally about eating His flesh, which will be hidden under the species of bread - how will they react when they see Him miraculousy ascending to Heaven in unhidden fashion? Will they murmur about that, too?

In 63, Jesus gives them the answer that the flesh is no avail, because, even as they will be watching Him ascend to heaven with their own eyes, their minds will reject this vision as illogical and impossible - the flesh literally would not believe its own eyes. It would require an equal assent of faith, by the will, that it wasn’t a mere hallucination.

Thus, to understand and believe what He is saying about being the Bread of Life come down from heaven to be consumed, requires the life-giving action of the spirit, which supercedes human logic that says no man can be eaten, flesh and blood, in an unbloody manner. Unless you consume His flesh, you shall not have life within you. And only the assent of the will to the sanctifying grace of the Holy Spirit, in spite of this inscrutable mystery, can cause one to believe.

And that’s when they left. They willed not to believe.
 
I find it fascinating that many of His disciples left him shortly after Jesus said the flesh was of no avail. Jesus emphasized over and over again that He was bread that we could eat. Yet then He said the flesh is of no avail and then the former disciples left shortly thereafter. What was it about saying the flesh is of no avail that made that the final straw to have them return to their former way of life? Any comments or thoughts regarding that aspect of the Bread of Life Discourse would be greatly appreciated.
He means that the Flesh carnal mind (HUMAN REASONING) can not understand the Supernatural world or the Spirit world.He is talking about the Eucharist being a Supernatural thing.

John 6:63 (New Living Translation)

63 The Spirit alone gives eternal life. Human effort accomplishes nothing. And the very words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
.
Substitute “Human reasoning” for “Human effort” and see how
it reads.
 
I hope I don’t get in trouble here but sometimes I think that there are factions trying to destroy Catholicism from within starting with the NAB.
Jeanne
There is a large crowd of Catholics that are suspicious of the same thing. I can’t believe the commentators are actually Orthodox Catholics.
 
Good points from all around. (And as for those who are worried about enemies trying to ruin the Catholic Church from within…DON’T WORRY. Our Lord said we must let the wheat and the tares grow together until the harvest, for if we try to uproot the tares now some of the wheat may perish too. Alas, if only Luther spent more time contemplating the meaning of THAT parable! Besides, there are MILLIONS of former protestants now coming BACK to Holy Mother Church, now more convinced of the necessity of Catholic dogma than ever before!)

Having said that, here’s my two penny worth on the subject at hand…

They left because they could not understand WITH THEIR OWN LIMITED MINDS how they could possibly eat the Lord’s flesh and drink His blood. They represent those who follow religion only with their heads, and NOT with their FAITH. The inner 12 however represent the REAL Church of BELIEVERS. Although they did NOT yet understand with their brains, they had FAITH and TRUST in the Lord. As Peter said “where else can we go, Lord?”.

Later, as we all know from hindsight, the Apostles learned that Jesus was the living PASSOVER LAMB of Exodus 12; prophecy fulfilled by an act of INFINITE LOVE.

Their act of FAITH in John 6, in the face of what seemed a completely unsolvable mystery, finally netted them the reward of ETERNAL LIFE. Amen! 👍
 
Good points from all around. (And as for those who are worried about enemies trying to ruin the Catholic Church from within…DON’T WORRY. Our Lord said we must let the wheat and the tares grow together until the harvest, for if we try to uproot the tares now some of the wheat may perish too. Alas, if only Luther spent more time contemplating the meaning of THAT parable! Besides, there are MILLIONS of former protestants now coming BACK to Holy Mother Church, now more convinced of the necessity of Catholic dogma than ever before!)

Having said that, here’s my two penny worth on the subject at hand…

They left because they could not understand WITH THEIR OWN LIMITED MINDS how they could possibly eat the Lord’s flesh and drink His blood. They represent those who follow religion only with their heads, and NOT with their FAITH. The inner 12 however represent the REAL Church of BELIEVERS. Although they did NOT yet understand with their brains, they had FAITH and TRUST in the Lord. As Peter said “where else can we go, Lord?”.

Later, as we all know from hindsight, the Apostles learned that Jesus was the living PASSOVER LAMB of Exodus 12; prophecy fulfilled by an act of INFINITE LOVE.

Their act of FAITH in John 6, in the face of what seemed a completely unsolvable mystery, finally netted them the reward of ETERNAL LIFE. Amen! 👍
:amen:
…and for curtishouse and JeannH, the NAB is on the Vatican web site here:vatican.va/archive/bible/index.htm

It’s in English, Italian, Latin or Spanish.

Our Lady of Perpetual Help though, we agree on!!👍
(and by the way, I’m a cradle Catholic, who never left Holy Mother Church and know that no one can destroy His Church, no matter what. Jesus said so!!) I believe.
 
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