Maybe we are simply looking at this from different angles but I’m not sure. Yes, faith without works is dead, but works also have a part in justification per James and Ephesians 2:10. Works are not simply evidence of faith. They are instead the work of the Father by grace within us. Faith is a gift of grace as are the works. Both are needed for us to be conformed to the image of His son Jesus.Actually, the verse provided is quite along the same route as I was going. A Faith without works IS dead, didn’t I say this above? It shows that that Faith is not a faith at all. To use the analogy of body and spirit, if you don’t have the spirit you don’t breathe. If you don’t have the Faith then you won’t do the works required of you. I think we are along the same lines just coming at it from different angles.
Well . . . I tried, but you ignored it and failed to respond.Please stay on topic…
I apologize if I offended you by not responding to your post. But was that why you had to come in and start blasting away on my ‘to me’ statement and how that is what is wrong with protestants? Did it hurt you that much?Well . . . I tried, but you ignored it and failed to respond.
I think it destroys your OP.
See my earlier post on the previous page:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=2801200&postcount=17
Six of one, half a dozen of the other.I don’t think so…
To me, works don’t affect salvation. It is your Faith that does this. Works are just the bi-product of a True Faith. By those Fruits you are known to be Christian. So in essence it is your True Faith that saves you. If you have True Faith you will do what is required of you because you know it is right. Truly, if you have no works then your Faith is not authentic. It is impossible to have a True Faith and not do what is right. Otherwise, the Faith is dead…
You’re absolutely right. In order to leave works out of the economy of salvation, the faith only crowd must then separate faith into two kinds, one which produces works and one which doesn’t. Jesus Himself said in Mt. 25 that those who don’t do the works He commanded will be condemned. His word is good enough for me. You gotta have both.Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
No matter how one understands it, “faith and works” describes it. The Catholic Church addressed a “works only” heresy in the first millinium.
I apologize if I offended you - I really do. I certainly didn’t mean to come “blasting away”, as you say. I felt that your OP was a provocative one and I wanted to share some scripture with you that proves what you said was inaccurate.I apologize if I offended you by not responding to your post. But was that why you had to come in and start blasting away on my ‘to me’ statement and how that is what is wrong with protestants? Did it hurt you that much?
And it doesn’t destroy it. Why do you want to come in and destroy someone’s thread or thought process? Wouldn’t it be better to follow Christ’s lead and refute it in love?
Christ says ‘Go and sell your things’ because He knows that that will show how much the rich man is willing to do for Him. An EVIDENCE of his faith. But sadly, with it not being a True Faith he walked away because he could not do what Christ asked of him. But thank you for proving my point with that one.
Works are an evidence of our Faith. If we don’t have a True Faith in Christ our lives will not produce the fruit that the bible talks about. That faith is dead without the fruit. BUT Faith comes first. Just like with the theif on the cross who did not have to do anything but say he believed in Christ and he was in Paradise that day!
Actually the thief on the cross DID do a work. What do you think he was doing when he rebuked those who were picking on Jesus? He did a work. What did Jesus say to the thief after he rebuked the people? Jesus said he would be with him in heaven.Not necessarily. Take the theif on the cross next to Christ. His Faith is what got him to paradise not his works because as we know, he had to do something BAD to get up there next to Christ and yet at His admission of who Christ was he was told that he would be in paradise with Christ THAT DAY. What works did he do?
What about deathbed confessions?
Most of us are not exceptions though. God saves who he wants, but there are “norms” that apply to most of us.Not necessarily. Take the theif on the cross next to Christ.
The deathbed confessor likely missed out on a life filled with God’s love. It’s his own loss.What about deathbed confessions?
Please go back to my earlier posts. James chapter two in no way suggests that works are simply evidence of our faith. The apostle does not say that faith is dead without “the fruit.” James does say that “faith without works is dead.” He also says that a man “is **justified by works **and not by faith alone.”…
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Works are an evidence of our Faith. If we don’t have a True Faith in Christ our lives will not produce the fruit that the bible talks about. That faith is dead without the fruit. BUT Faith comes first. Just like with the theif on the cross who did not have to do anything but say he believed in Christ and he was in Paradise that day!
That you haven’t read verse 28 very well:So I ran across this in a daily email I get and it struck me as interesting. See below:
They asked point blank what works do we need to do for God as He requires and all Jesus says is to believe in Christ! That’s it. That’s all. Not - obey the commandments or make sure you are clean as snow the day you die. BUT BELIEVE in CHRIST.
What say you?