John 6 & the Eucharist: Help my unbelief

[TominAdelaide]

The Catholic Church also believes that the Passover meal which the Israelites had to eat before they left Egypt was a “foreshadowing” of Christ’s Passion and the Eucharistic Meal in the New Testament. The Israelites had to sacrifice a blemish-free, year-old lamb, apply its blood to the doorposts and lintel of the house, without breaking any of its bones and then roast it and eat the meal. This is symbolic of Christ who is the true “Passover Lamb” (as John the Baptist says Jesus is “…the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world." (John 1:29)) Jesus is also “a lamb without blemish or spot” (living a perfect life free from sin, as Pilate testified, “I find no guilt in him” (John 18:38)). The blood on the doorpost is symbolic of Christ’s blood shed on the wood of the Cross and eating the sacrificed lamb as a meal is symbolic of eating Christ in the Eucharistic Meal: “Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.” (John 6:53); Jesus said, “Who is greater: the one seated at the table or the one who serves? I am among you as the one who serves” (Lk 22:27); “for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink.” (John 6:55); “all ate and were satisfied” (Lk 9:17). The whole assembly was called to gather together to sacrifice the lambs. Catholics are called to assemble for the sacrifice of the Eucharist, the new Passover celebration (as Paul says, “Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.” (1 Corinthians 5:7)) The Jews were required to keep the feast of unleavened bread, “as a perpetual institution” (Exodus 12:17). At Mass, Catholics are called to the same memorial feast of Christ: “Do this in memory of me” (Luke 22:19). When God had prescribed for them what to do, “the people bowed their head and worshipped” (Exodus 12:27). Catholics also bow before receiving the Eucharist, worshiping the Lamb of God, in spirit and truth (John 4:24). Jesus also instituted the Eucharist at the Last Supper which was during the feast of the Passover. The command that the Passover lamb not have its legs broken is also symbolic because when Jesus was crucified none of his bones were broken. When the soldiers came to break Jesus’ legs to hasten his death, they found that he was already dead, so they pierced his side with a spear but did not break his legs.

This article discusses 9 more ”types” of the Eucharist in the Old Testament, which are:

• The forbidden fruit
• Fruit of the Tree of Life
• the blood of Abel
• Sacrifice of Melchizedek
• the todah
• Elijah in the desert
• Bread of the Presence
• Isaiah’s coal
• Ezekiel eating the scroll

Nine Ways the Eucharist Is Hidden in the Old Testament

 

[hope]

Welcome Dick what a great suggestion.

 

[Dan_Defender]

Besides what the others have said, ultimately the Eucharist is a mystery. Reasoning from the Bible and otherwise can only take you so far. It is something to be experienced. I am always in awe that Jesus grants us this wonderful gift for our spiritual benefit. He indeed remains with us till the end of the world.

 

[JerryZ]

Indeed when you enter a Catholic Church and HE is in the Tabernacle (typically you can tell by a lit candel next to the Tabernacle) sometimes you can sense HIS presence.
Try it you might be surprised.
Peace!

 

[Techno2000]

• Jesus then says that He is the bread of life, and that He, as the bread that the Father sent down from Heaven (like manna), came to do the Father’s will.
• Then He says He’ll raise up those who the Father gives him, at the last day.
• The Jews grumble because He said He came down from heaven, but He reiterates that He’ll raise up at the last day those who the Father sends him.
• verse 47: The one “who believes” has eternal life. Their ancestors ate manna that came down from Heaven, but Jesus is the living bread that came down from Heaven, and whoever eats it will not die. The bread is “His flesh”.
• He says that if we eat His flesh and drink His blood, we have eternal life and He will raise us up at the last day. Doesn’t this harken back to the previous verses where he’ll raise up at the last day those who “the Father sends him”? Especially as in verse 40, where He says, “For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life” and he “will raise him up at the last day”.

I see this as pointing to belief in Jesus as the Son of God 100% of the way through, not having to literally eat him and drink him some other way. If it’s our faith, working through love, that saves us, what does eating and drinking the Eucharist have to do with anything here? Doesn’t his flesh and blood signify what He’ll be giving up during the sacrifice at Calvary? Verse 51: "This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” He does give it at Calvary. Why would all this be about giving it in the Eucharist, since it’s the sacrifice of Calvary that saves us, not eating and drinking the Eucharist? If I’m totally missing the point and it has something to do with the Eucharist and Calvary being one and the same, I am willing to listen on that point as well.

And this is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:14

It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
John 6:63

“It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh(Human Reasoning) is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit (Supernatural) and life.”

The people that walk away were trying to understand Jesus words through the lens of human reason, what Jesus was talking about was something supernatural.

 

[JonNC]

Walking through John 6, which I’ve seen presented as a precursor to the Last Supper, it’s hard for me not to interpret it as Jesus stressing that we need to believe in Him as the Son of God and accept his sacrifice, not anything to do with the Eucharist.

My I respectfully suggest that you’ve actually hit on the answer here. While I as a Lutheran believe in the real presence as Strongly as any Catholic, I think Catholic apologia is (sometimes) backward on this.
You are right: John 6 is the precursor. The explicit evidence for the real presence is Christ’s own words, and Paul’s reiteration of those words.
Once you hear “this is…”, John 6 falls into place.
Just my view.

 

[LuciusMaximus]

Ok, got it. Glad to hear that you’re also a Protestant but also believe in the Real Presence. Do you mean that instead of using John 6 to look forward to the Last Supper, it should be the other way around? And that we don’t even need John 6 to prove the Real Presence, since it’s already affirmed directly by Jesus along with Paul? I know that Paul wrote about participating “in the body and blood” of Jesus, as well as people falling ill and dying for failing to “discern the body”.

 

[JonNC]

Ok, got it. Glad to hear that you’re also a Protestant but also believe in the Real Presence.

It is an doctrinal teaching of Lutheranism.

Do you mean that instead of using John 6 to look forward to the Last Supper, it should be the other way around? And that we don’t even need John 6 to prove the Real Presence, since it’s already affirmed directly by Jesus along with Paul?

Of course we need John 6, but as supporting evidence for Christ’s own words. In other words, John 6 has language that some Protestants are inclined to believe is figurative. The Last Supper Account’s are direct. “This is my body…”.

I know that Paul wrote about participating “in the body and blood” of Jesus, as well as people falling ill and dying for failing to “discern the body”.

More evidence!