John 7 1-10 Did Jesus lie, or change his mind

[runandsew]

OK, I know lying is wrong, and I know that Jesus would never lie.
But can someone explain John chapter 7 verses1-10.
Jesus tells his brothers that he is not going to the feast, but then he goes to the feast anyways, and in secret. If Jesus told his brothers that he is not going, but then he does it anyway, can’t that be considered lying, or do we justify his actions by saying, “well, he changed his mind”?

John 7:1-10
After this, Jesus moved about within Galilee; but he did not wish to travel in Judea, because the Jews were trying to kill him.
But the Jewish feast of Tabernacles was near.
So his brothers said to him, “Leave here and go to Judea, so that your disciples also may see the works you are doing.
No one works in secret if he wants to be known publicly. If you do these things, manifest yourself to the world.”
For his brothers did not believe in him.
So Jesus said to them, “My time is not yet here, but the time is always right for you.
The world cannot hate you, but it hates me, because I testify to it that its works are evil.
You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, because my time has not yet been fulfilled.”
After he had said this, he stayed on in Galilee.
But when his brothers had gone up to the feast, he himself also went up, not openly but (as it were) in secret.

 

[thistle]

OK, I know lying is wrong, and I know that Jesus would never lie.
But can someone explain John chapter 7 verses1-10.
Jesus tells his brothers that he is not going to the feast, but then he goes to the feast anyways, and in secret. If Jesus told his brothers that he is not going, but then he does it anyway, can’t that be considered lying, or do we justify his actions by saying, “well, he changed his mind”?

John 7:1-10
After this, Jesus moved about within Galilee; but he did not wish to travel in Judea, because the Jews were trying to kill him.
But the Jewish feast of Tabernacles was near.
So his brothers said to him, “Leave here and go to Judea, so that your disciples also may see the works you are doing.
No one works in secret if he wants to be known publicly. If you do these things, manifest yourself to the world.”
For his brothers did not believe in him.
So Jesus said to them, “My time is not yet here, but the time is always right for you.
The world cannot hate you, but it hates me, because I testify to it that its works are evil.
You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, because my time has not yet been fulfilled.”
After he had said this, he stayed on in Galilee.
But when his brothers had gone up to the feast, he himself also went up, not openly but (as it were) in secret.

First we all know that Jesus cannot lie so if something appears in scripture where it seems he has it means our understanding and interpretation is wrong and not that Jesus lied.

The DR Bible commentary on this point says “But why does he ascend to the festival day when he said he would not? He did not say I will not ascend but I do not ascend, that is in your company.”

S. Chrys. hom xlvii says “I do not go up to this festival, viz the first or second day of the festival, which lasted eight days, and to which you wish me to ascend; but he went afterwards, when the first part of the festival was over.”

 

[Georgess]

That phrase, ’ I am not going UP for this feast ’ might be a clue .
.
Our Lord had also said ’ when the Son of Man is lifted UP ', referring to The Cross …and that feast was going to be The Passover …
Prior to the above incident, there is mention of The Lord talking about Judas about to betray Him … the brothers themselves not believing Him …even taunting Him … was it even a set up …for The Lord did say
’ My time is not yet come but your time is always ready '.and going in secret ,was it to protect them from being in the plan of Judas …for in the next few verses , He is openly teaching in the temple …

 

[Verita]

OK, I know lying is wrong, and I know that Jesus would never lie.
But can someone explain John chapter 7 verses1-10.
Jesus tells his brothers that he is not going to the feast, but then he goes to the feast anyways, and in secret. If Jesus told his brothers that he is not going, but then he does it anyway, can’t that be considered lying, or do we justify his actions by saying, “well, he changed his mind”?

I don’t see why Jesus can’t change his mind. After all, he was human.

 

[stillwater]

I don’t see why Jesus can’t change his mind. After all, he was human.

he is supposed to be god incarnate and sinless

if it was a different person, surely we say he had lied…
since it was jesus we justify his actions
lying is still lying even if it’s a white lie

same as we justify god did not commit genocide even if he did
because he is god, and we are taught not to argue with that
but if it were hitler, surely we say it was genocide…

sumthin to ponder on.

 

[thistle]

he is supposed to be god incarnate and sinless

if it was a different person, surely we say he had lied…
since it was jesus we justify his actions
lying is still lying even if it’s a white lie

same as we justify god did not commit genocide even if he did
because he is god, and we are taught not to argue with that
but if it were hitler, surely we say it was genocide…

sumthin to ponder on.

Its nothing to ponder on because what you say is nonsense.
Jesus is God. He was sinless and he never lied.

 

[stillwater]

Its nothing to ponder on because what you say is nonsense.
Jesus is God. He was sinless and he never lied.

so what do you call what he did?

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Jesus brothers wanted him to go to the feast publically, Jesus did not want to attend the feast Openly because it was not time yet for his arrest and death. Jesus simply wanted to attend the feast privately. Jesus did not lie, the context is his brothers wanting him to publically attend. Jesus did not want to publically attend. Jesus wanted to attend in secret.

 

[stillwater]

Jesus brothers wanted him to go to the feast publically, Jesus did not want to attend the feast Openly because it was not time yet for his arrest and death. Jesus simply wanted to attend the feast privately. Jesus did not lie, the context is his brothers wanting him to publically attend. Jesus did not want to publically attend. Jesus wanted to attend in secret.

so again if it’s not a lie, what do you call it? a white lie?

 

[Verita]

Say you wanted me to go to a party with you and I said I really didn’t feel like it. Then later, after you’d left, I started thinking and decided that maybe I would like to go after all. It could be fun. So I do go. Did I lie when I originally told you that I didn’t want to? Of course not! It was true when I said it, it wasn’t meant to deceive. Therefore it’s not a lie.

And Jesus wasn’t lying either.

 

[stillwater]

Say you wanted me to go to a party with you and I said I really didn’t feel like it. Then later, after you’d left, I started thinking and decided that maybe I would like to go after all. It could be fun. So I do go. Did I lie when I originally told you that I didn’t want to? Of course not! It was true when I said it, it wasn’t meant to deceive. Therefore it’s not a lie.

And Jesus wasn’t lying either.

you said you really didn’t feel like it. it’s different from “i will not go or i’m not going”

this is what jesus said:

I am not going up to this feast, because my time has not yet been fulfilled

he clearly said he is not going, he didn’t say…

i’m not sure if i can go cuz i didn’t feel like it

 

[Verita]

you said you really didn’t feel like it. it’s different from “i will not go or i’m not going”

this is what jesus said:

he clearly said he is not going, he didn’t say…

i’m not sure if i can go cuz i didn’t feel like it

You are really nit picking this. It doesn’t matter. If you asked me to go to a party with you and I said I’m not going to go and then later changed my mind and went it still wouldn’t be a lie.

Lying is about deception. If a statement wasn’t meant to deceive then it’s not a lie, even if it technically isn’t true. If I said to you, “The moon is made of cheese” and honestly believed it then it wouldn’t be a lie, even though it isn’t the truth.

THe only way Jesus would have been lying is if he intentionally meant to make people believe he was going to do something other than he intended to do. There is absolutely no evidence of that. And since Jesus is God, I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt instead of trying to make a liar out of him.

 

[thistle]

so what do you call what he did?

Read post #2

 

[stillwater]

THe only way Jesus would have been lying is if he intentionally meant to make people believe he was going to do something other than he intended to do. There is absolutely no evidence of that. And since Jesus is God, I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt instead of trying to make a liar out of him.

it was a bluff. he wanted to go in secret. so he intentionally lied.

Read post #2

well i’ve checked your post, you only said he did not lie. i am asking you if he is not lying, what is it then?

First we all know that Jesus cannot lie so if something appears in scripture where it seems he has it means our understanding and interpretation is wrong and not that Jesus lied.

The DR Bible commentary on this point says “But why does he ascend to the festival day when he said he would not? He did not say I will not ascend but I do not ascend, that is in your company.”

S. Chrys. hom xlvii says “I do not go up to this festival, viz the first or second day of the festival, which lasted eight days, and to which you wish me to ascend; but he went afterwards, when the first part of the festival was over.”

 

[thistle]

it was a bluff. he wanted to go in secret. so he intentionally lied.

well i’ve checked your post, you only said he did not lie. i am asking you if he is not lying, what is it then?

Are you blind?? What do paras 2 and 3 say?
He is saying that he will not go up with the others at the time they ask him to but rather at a later time.
He is not lying and has not changed his mind.

 

[stillwater]

Are you blind?? What do paras 2 and 3 say?
He is saying that he will not go up with the others at the time they ask him to but rather at a later time.
He is not lying and has not changed his mind.

err…i think you are the one who is blind.

 

[thistle]

err…i think you are the one who is blind.

Okay then what are the two paragraphs I referred to you saying??

 

[stillwater]

Okay then what are the two paragraphs I referred to you saying??

post #2 paras 2&3 what else?

i’m only asking you what term would you use to call what jesus did if it isn’t lying. those paragraphs only justified the words jesus used to prove that he didn’t lie.

 

[dolphinlove]

Jesus does not lie, no matter what you say.
Just because he said he was not going in the first place, does not mean he is not entitled to change his mind later and actually go to the party. This is not lying, its a person changing their mind!

 

[Georgess]

John 7-9 After he had said these things, he himself stayed in Galilee

7 - 11 The jews therefore sought him on The festival day and said ’ where is he ? ’

7 -14 Now about the midst of the feast , Jesus stood up …

He had stayed on in Galilee …( probably praying all night , for those wicked brothers ) was NOT there on The festival day …and came About The Midst of the feast …

He IS The Word …The same Word , that said - ’ let there be ’ and made the heavens …and earth …and yet in His love ,choosing to deal with little hard hearted human children, at their level …like the discourse of The Bread , that many could interpret very concretely …in the ways of the flesh , without the help of The Spirit …