John 7 1-10 Did Jesus lie, or change his mind

[jpy15026]

St. Jerome:
I am not going up: This refusal of the brothers’ request does not stand in contradiction to v. 10, for they had asked for a public manifestation. “Going up” was the semitechnical term for making a pilgrimage to the holy city.
Here a deeper significance is also suggested: The term anabainein*, “go up,” evokes the idea of the resurrection (anabasis). The time for this is not yet.

Jesus’ departure for Tabernacles represents his farewell to Galilee and therefore the beginning of the final events of Jesus’ ministry. Jesus does not appear until the feast is half over (v. 14); thus the Jews , who had been expecting an appearance of Jesus similar to that demanded by his brothers, were disappointed in their search for him.

I am not going up: an early attested reading “not yet” seems a correction, since Jesus in the story does go up to the feast. “Go up,” in a play on words, refers not only to going up to Jerusalem but also to exaltation at the cross, resurrection, and ascension; cf John 3:14; 6:62; 20:17.

• The brethren tell Jesus to go up to Jerusalem openly in order to manifest himself to the world and completely misinterpret his mission and its purpose. The arrival of pilgrims at Jerusalem for the Feast of Tabernacles customarily involved a triumphant procession met by priests outside the city. The presence of so many visitors was frequently the occasion for nationalistic uprisings.6. it is not yet time for me: Jesus’ manifestation of himself will take place in the events of the passion. The brethren, on the other hand, can go to Jerusalem as they will-at any time.7. Jesus explains: He cannot manifest himself to the world as they ask because the world has become his enemy because of the testimony he has brought against it .No such hostility pursues the brethren, for the world loves its own

 

[Nita]

Some additional thoughts I’ve had:

I don’t think the requests of Jesus’ brothers, or His response, had anything to do with whether or not He would be going to Jerusalem to keep the festival. I think it was just assumed by all that He would be going. The Feast of Tabernacles was one of the three feasts that required all males over 13 to come before God at the tabernacle in Jerusalem. (Exodus 23:14-17 “…Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord God.”) The “go up” which the brothers request is a “go up and work miracles”. (vs 3) Jesus refusal is a refusal to go up and perform works; to go up and show Himself to the world.

This whole discussion has really spurred me to examine this passage. Jesus’ response to His brothers is what is really interesting and a little curious at first. But the more you examine and ponder it, the more meaningful it becomes. They have just said “…show yourself to the world.” Now that’s asking Jesus to make quite a public manifestation! Jesus says: **“My **time has not yet come…” and “I am not going up to this feast, for **my time **has not yet fully come”. It’s as though He’s indicating that there will be a time when He will “go up” as they suggest, but it won’t be at this feast. It will be at the time of another feast.

That “time” and “feast” and “going up” are recorded in John 12:12-19. It’s the “time” for His passion and He goes to Jerusalem for the “feast” of the Passover. It is a very public “going up” - with crowds waving palm branches and proclaiming Him Son of David (Matt. 21:9) and King of Israel (John 12:13).

Nita

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

so again if it’s not a lie, what do you call it? a white lie?

Ah no, If you read the text closely, Jesus did not want to go publically, he really wanted to go secretly. He was simply saying to his brother that he did not want to go to make a spectacle of himself. His brothers were unbelievers, likely being rude.

Have you ever told someone that you did not want to go somewhere with them, but you went to the same event latter without them? that is all that is going on here. You must remember that the gospels do not record his actions like a video camera. You need to read the full context to see what is going on between the lines.

Between the lines, his brother wanted Jesus to go PUBLIC like – SHOW OFF his miracles. Jesus did not want to do that. Jesus wanted to attend the festival incognito.

Try reading the text in some modern translations like the Good News Bible or the Message.

7:1 After this, Jesus traveled in Galilee; he did not want to travel in Judea, because the Jewish authorities there were wanting to kill him.

7:2 The time for the Festival of Shelters was near,

7:3 so Jesus’ brothers said to him, "Leave this place and go to Judea, so that** your followers will see the things that you are doing. **

**7:4 People don’t hide what they are doing if they want to be well known. Since you are doing these things, let the whole world know about you!" **

7:5 (Not even his brothers believed in him.)

7:6 Jesus said to them, "The right time for me has not yet come. Any time is right for you.

7:7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me, because I keep telling it that its ways are bad.

7:8 You go on to the festival. I am not going to this festival, because the right time has not come for me."

7:9 He said this and then stayed on in Galilee.

7:10 After his brothers had gone to the festival, Jesus also went; however, he did not go openly, but secretly.

John 7 (The Message)

1-2 Later Jesus was going about his business in Galilee. He didn’t want to travel in Judea because the Jews there were looking for a chance to kill him. It was near the time of Tabernacles, a feast observed annually by the Jews.

3-5His brothers said, “Why don’t you leave here and go up to the Feast **so your disciples can get a good look at the works you do? No one who intends to be publicly known does everything behind the scenes. If you’re serious about what you are doing, come out in the open and show the world.”**U] His brothers were pushing him like this because they didn’t believe in him either.

6-8Jesus came back at them, “Don’t crowd me. This isn’t my time. It’s your time—it’s always your time; you have nothing to lose. The world has nothing against you, but it’s up in arms against me. It’s against me because I expose the evil behind its pretensions. You go ahead, go up to the Feast. **Don’t wait for me. I’m not ready. It’s not the right time for me.” **

9-11He said this and stayed on in Galilee. But later, after his family had gone up to the Feast, he also went. But he kept out of the way, careful not to draw attention to himself. The Jews were already out looking for him, asking around, “Where is that man?”

Jesus was not lying, they wanted him to go publically, Jesus wanted to go incognito. When Jesus was saying I don’t want to go, he was saying I do not want to go and make a spectacle of myself.

They asked Jesus to make a spectacle of himself, Jesus wanted to go incognito thats all there is to it.

 

[jpy15026]

This is why we need the DouayRheims**!**
Douay**:**
Jn 7:8. Go you up to this festival day: but I go not up to this festival day, because my time is not accomplished.

Deut 16:13. Thou shalt celebrate the solemnity also of tabernacles seven days, when thou hast gathered in thy fruit of the barnfloor and of the winepress.
16:14. And thou shalt make merry in thy festival time, thou, thy son, and thy daughter, thy manservant, and thy maidservant, the Levite also and the stranger, and the fatherless and the widow that are within thy gates.
16:15. Seven days shalt thou celebrate feasts to the Lord thy God in the place which the Lord shall choose: and the Lord thy God will bless thee in all thy fruits, and in every work of thy hands, and thou shalt be in joy.

Lev.23:39. So from the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you shall have gathered in all the fruits of your land, you shall celebrate the feast of the Lord seven days. On the first day and the eighth shall be a sabbath: that is a day of rest.
23:40. And you shall take to you on the first day the fruits of the fairest tree, and branches of palm trees, and boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook: And you shall rejoice before the Lord your God.
23:41. And you shall keep the solemnity thereof seven days in the year. It shall be an everlasting ordinance in your generations. In the seventh month shall you celebrate this feast.
23:42. And you shall dwell in bowers seven days. Every one that is of the race of Israel, shall dwell in tabernacles:
23:43. That your posterity may know, that I made the children of Israel to dwell in tabernacles, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt. I am the Lord your God.
23:44. And Moses spoke concerning the feasts of the Lord to the children of Israel.

 

[TOME]

I am going to rely, in part, on some works of authors of the historical criticism group which I hope will not automatically mean I am wrong.

Here in John I think we get to see a very humam side of Jesus coming out. And if you go back to the very beginning of his ministry, as found in John, one thing that Jesus was always aware of and proclaimed was about his “Hour” or “Time”. It seems that a driving force behind these statements was Jesus’ acute awareness that he constantly faced the danger that his ministry would be totally misunderstood by the people, who inturn were looking for a “messiah” totally to the messiahship Jesus’ understood. It seems Jesus assest that his going to Jerusalem would have generated a reaction oposite of what he knew was God’s will for the messiah to be.

Here, in human terms, he also seems to have been a political realist and understood that the opposition of the Jewish leadership, in Jerusalem, was such that he may have been arrested, possibily put to death, before he was finish proclaiming, to his own satisfaction, the message of the Kingdom of God.

However, and this is pure spectulation on my part, I think Jesus later came to the conclusion that he could enter Jerusalem for the feast on his own without compromsing his ministry but also giving into the greater desire to worship the Father, so he went.

So, in purely human terms, he reassested the situation and decided to go.

But I must add, I am also totally confident that in his reevaluation, a total faith in God’s protection also inspired him to go.

 

[moodset]

you are one step closer to the troth

 

[CrossofChrist]

you are one step closer to the troth

Yes, he is after hearing multiple satisfactory explanations, especially from jpy15026 using the holy Father and Doctor of the Church St. Jerome.

BTW, this thread is 7 years old…