John 7:37-39

[MITCH1234]

John 7:37-39

37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”[a] 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

This is not in the O.T

What is Jesus referring to?

 

[ChrisCath]

Source

But where here does the Scripture say this? No where. What then? We should read, He that believes in Me, as said the Scripture, putting the stop here; and then, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water: the meaning being, that that was a right kind of belief, which was formed on the evidence of Scripture, not of miracles.
~ St. Chrysostom

*[Perhaps] this testimony is taken from the Proverbs, where it is said, Let your fountains be dispersed abroad, and rivers of waters in the streets. *
~ St. Jerome

Perhaps: [BIBLEDRB]Proverbs 5:16[/BIBLEDRB]

It is also true that there are apparently scriptures that were lost, both in the OT and in the NT.

 

[John7]

click on the jpeg below.
from ‘Commentary on the New Testament use of the Old Testament’, p454.
start at paragraph 1/3 page down from top

 

[TimothyH]

Living water is a reference to flowing water. Flowing water was considered superior to stagnant water and flowing water was required for the Jewish purification bath known as a Mikvah. Good information on the Mikvah can be found at chabad.org/theJewishWoman/article_cdo/aid/1541/jewish/The-Mikvah.htm. Jews still use the Mikvah bath today.

Jews would go to a river or spring, stip naked and immerse themselves. They would open their mouth, hold their eyes open, spread their fingers and would go down into the water until their entire body was immersed and would thus be purified. When you hear God tell the israelites to “Purify yourselves” they are talking about a Mikvah purifiation bath. When the Bible says “Wash your garments” they are talking about taking off your clothes to wash them and immersing yourself in a Mikvah bath for purification.

At that time Jerusalem, all Judea, and the whole region around the Jordan were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the Jordan River as they acknowledged their sins. (Matthew 3:5-6)

John the Baptist was “Baptizing” people, immersing them in the living water of the Jordan River. People were confessing their sin and undergoing a Mikvah purification bath. Jesus himself undergoes a Mikvah at the hands of John the Baptist and raises it to supernatural status. Through his own baptism, Jesus raises the Mikvah bath to the status of a sacrament.

Jesus’ words “streams of living water will flow from within them” would have been very provocative to those who heard him. When Jesus told the Samaritan woman that he would give her living water to drink, she would have understood it to be water which purifies. That is why she was so anxious and said, “Give me this water always”.

***John answered them all, saying,l “I am baptizing you with water, but one mightier than I is coming. I am not worthy to loosen the thongs of his sandals. He will baptize you with the holy Spirit and fire.” *(Luke 3:16)

This is key. Remember that John the Baptist is the last prophet. John the Baptist bridges the gap between the age of the revelation through the prophets and the age of revelation through God himself who became man. John is a bridge leading from the old covenant to the new covenant. And John links the Mikvah purification bath (I am baptizing you with water) of the old covenant to the sacraments of initiation, especially baptism and confirmation, where we are given the Holy Spirit.

The imagery of living water is used to describe our experience in heaven.

For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd,
and he will guide them to springs of living water;
and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."
(Revelation 7:17)

-Tim-

 

[Augustine3]

It could also be an allusion from the passage of Jeremiah:

“O LORD, the hope of Israel, All who forsake You will be put to shame. Those who turn away on earth will be written down, Because they have forsaken the fountain of living water, even the LORD.” – Jeremiah 17:13

Jesus could be applying just the opposite to this verse. Israel’s faith deteriorated and so they have forsaken the fountain of living water; whereas if they had believed “rivers of living water will flow from within them”.

God bless,

 

[Mintaka]

I think it’s a reference to Num. 24:7, and there’s some idiom or misreading to “bucket” that makes it really “belly”.

"And when Balaam saw that it pleased the Lord that he should bless Israel. he went not as he had gone before, to seek divination: but setting his face towards the desert, and lifting up his eyes, he saw Israel abiding in their tents by their tribes: and the spirit of God rushing upon him, he took up his parable and said: "Balaam the son of Beor hath said…

“How beautiful are thy tabernacles, O Jacob, and thy tents, O Israel! As woody valleys, as watered gardens near the rivers, as tabernacles which the Lord hath pitched, as cedars by the waterside. Water shall flow out of his bucket, and his seed shall be in many waters…”

But this is a seriously Wild A** Guess, and I don’t see anybody else supporting it through history, so it’s probably not true.

 

[JonathonofOhio]

John 7:37-39

This is not in the O.T

What is Jesus referring to?

Actually it is in the O.T. Sirach 24:40-47 but since that book was removed by the Jews and later also by the Protestants, it is missing from many Bibles in print today.

 

[JonathonofOhio]

Living water is a reference to flowing water. Flowing water was considered superior to stagnant water and flowing water was required for the Jewish purification bath known as a Mikvah. Good information on the Mikvah can be found at chabad.org/theJewishWoman/article_cdo/aid/1541/jewish/The-Mikvah.htm. Jews still use the Mikvah bath today.

Jews would go to a river or spring, stip naked and immerse themselves. They would open their mouth, hold their eyes open, spread their fingers and would go down into the water until their entire body was immersed and would thus be purified. When you hear God tell the israelites to “Purify yourselves” they are talking about a Mikvah purifiation bath. When the Bible says “Wash your garments” they are talking about taking off your clothes to wash them and immersing yourself in a Mikvah bath for purification.

At that time Jerusalem, all Judea, and the whole region around the Jordan were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the Jordan River as they acknowledged their sins. (Matthew 3:5-6)

John the Baptist was “Baptizing” people, immersing them in the living water of the Jordan River. People were confessing their sin and undergoing a Mikvah purification bath. Jesus himself undergoes a Mikvah at the hands of John the Baptist and raises it to supernatural status. Through his own baptism, Jesus raises the Mikvah bath to the status of a sacrament.

Jesus’ words “streams of living water will flow from within them” would have been very provocative to those who heard him. When Jesus told the Samaritan woman that he would give her living water to drink, she would have understood it to be water which purifies. That is why she was so anxious and said, “Give me this water always”.

***John answered them all, saying,l “I am baptizing you with water, but one mightier than I is coming. I am not worthy to loosen the thongs of his sandals. He will baptize you with the holy Spirit and fire.” ***(Luke 3:16)

This is key. Remember that John the Baptist is the last prophet. John the Baptist bridges the gap between the age of the revelation through the prophets and the age of revelation through God himself who became man. John is a bridge leading from the old covenant to the new covenant. And John links the Mikvah purification bath (I am baptizing you with water) of the old covenant to the sacraments of initiation, especially baptism and confirmation, where we are given the Holy Spirit.

The imagery of living water is used to describe our experience in heaven.

For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd,
and he will guide them to springs of living water;
and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."
(Revelation 7:17)

-Tim-

Nice insight, Tim. Very interesting. Also interesting is that living (flowing) water is a requirement of Baptism in the early Church…this is probably why it became necessary to pour the water over the head to simulate flowing waters when it wasn’t readily available.

 

[TimothyH]

Nice insight, Tim. Very interesting. Also interesting is that living (flowing) water is a requirement of Baptism in the early Church…this is probably why it became necessary to pour the water over the head to simulate flowing waters when it wasn’t readily available.

I was thinking that too. That’s why the priest can’t use spit, or coca-cola.

If we look at the earliest liturgical guide from the Church, the Didache, written in the late first or ealy second century we see how they were instructed to baptize.

***Chapter 7.Concerning Baptism. ** And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before. *

-Tim-

 

[JonathonofOhio]

I was thinking that too. That’s why the priest can’t use spit, or coca-cola.

If we look at the earliest liturgical guide from the Church, the Didache, written in the late first or ealy second century we see how they were instructed to baptize.

***Chapter 7.Concerning Baptism. *** And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

-Tim-

Yeah, I saw that. On newadvent.org there is article on baptism in which they talk about the preferred method being full immersion (3 times, a person was immersed), and that it was the popular way of doing it in the early church (I was not aware of that), but also notes that pouring over the head was done quite often due to the limited availability of ‘living waters’. (see section on matter and form: newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm)

http://www.stdimitri.org/images/97310002_baptism_infant.jpg
2nd Century Catacomb of St. Callisto Depicting Infant Baptism

From the painting above it looks like the child is standing in the water and having the water poured over his/her head.

 

[COPLAND_3]

Cornelius a Lapide says

Where is this said? (1.) Rupertus, St. Thomas, and St. Jerome say in Prov. 5:16, “Let thy fountains be dispersed abroad.” (2.) Fr. Lucas in Is. 58:8, “Thou shalt be like a watered garden.” (3.) Others say that it is stated not in one place, but in many, for the prophets everywhere foretell that the abundance of spiritual gifts which Christ would give, would be like showers of water. See Joel 2:28; Is. 41:18, 44:3. See also Ezek.36:25, and Ecclus. 24:40, Vulg., “I wisdom poured forth rivers,” &c. (In Angl. verses 30, 31), and Cant. 4:15, “A fountain of gardens, a well of living waters, and streams from Lebanon.”

 

[Gorgias]

John 7:37-39

What is Jesus referring to?

The context of John 7 is the Sukkot (i.e., Tabernacles) festival in Jerusalem (one of the festivals that Jews were required to go to Jerusalem to celebrate). It was a multi-day festival; libations of water were poured out daily, with the implication of prayers for life-sustaining rainfall. (There was also an association between water and salvation (cf Isaiah 12:3-4).) On the final day of the festival (John 7:37), at which point the final libation of water was to be poured out, Jesus stands up and talks about the living water that has true salvific effects, and saying that he is the source of the water that saves…