John Calvin is discredited by the Scriptures

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J. Calvin [and many others] claimed to be God’s prophet, and to possess inerrant ability to read/interpret scripture. Scriptures proves him wrong, a liar, and a dead man talking !

Zechariah 13:1-3 “On that day there shall be a fountain opened for the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to cleanse them from sin and uncleanness. And on that day, says the Lord of hosts, I will cut off the names of the idols from the land, so that they shall be remembered no more; and also I will REMOVE FROM THE LAND THE PROPHETS and unclean spirit. And if any one again APPEARS AS A PROPHET, his father and mother who bore him will say to him, ‘You shall not live, for you speak lives in the name of the Lord’;”
 
Could you please cite the source from which you have drawn this conclusion?
 
brb3 said:
It’s embedded within this mp3 link info. Listen to it, then if you fail to grasp … perhaps I will spoonfeed you. 🙂
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I don’t have the time to listen to an mp3 link so feel free to provide a primary source.

BTW, providing a primary source isn’t considered “spoonfeeding”.
 
SemperReformada said:
I don’t have the time to listen to an mp3 link so feel free to provide a primary source.

BTW, providing a primary source isn’t considered “spoonfeeding”.
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No… you have adequate time. You just fear what truth you might learn of !

Until you learn to search for truths outside your comfort zone … you will not advance in wisdom. Prove me wrong :yup:
 
This argument is superfluous, because all you need to demonstrate John Calvin’s errors is the fact that he relied on personal interpretation of scripture, which the Bible itself argues against: cf. 1 Timothy 3:15, 2 Thessalonians 2:15, 2 Peter 1:20, etc.
 
brb3 said:
No… you have adequate time. You just fear what truth you might learn of !

Until you learn to search for truths outside your comfort zone … you will not advance in wisdom. Prove me wrong :yup:
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I fear wasting my time on a wild goose chase.

Really, until you provide a primary source there isn’t any reason for anyone to post a response.
 
EphelDuath said:
This argument is superfluous, because all you need to demonstrate John Calvin’s errors is the fact that he relied on personal interpretation of scripture, which the Bible itself argues against: cf. 1 Timothy 3:15, 2 Thessalonians 2:15, 2 Peter 1:20, etc.
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You do realize that citing 2 Peter 1:20-21 as a “proff text” aggainst sola scriptura can only be done if one rips 2 Peter 1:20 out of context? I assume you see “private interpretation” and run with it.

Peter explains in the preceding verses that the Apostles did not invent their claims about the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ, but saw it first hand when He revealed it to them in the Transfiguration. He then exhorts his readers to heed the “prophetic word.” He continues, “No prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men borne by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”

**In context, the “interpretation” which Peter refers to is on the part of the prophet, not the reader. That is, Peter’s point is that no prophet made up his own prophecies. **The prophets spoke what they received from God to speak, just as the Apostles spoke what they received from God to speak on Mount Tabor. Hence, their words rest on divine and not human authority.
 
I’ll admit that this was the weakest of the three verses I just cited. Being that there’s so much evidence against sola Scriptura, I readily accept that the less clear verses are not worth arguing about, since the much clearer ones like 1 Timothy 3:15 still hold.
 
EphelDuath said:
I’ll admit that this was the weakest of the three verses I just cited. Being that there’s so much evidence against sola Scriptura, I readily accept that the less clear verses are not worth arguing about, since the much clearer ones like 1 Timothy 3:15 still hold.
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Ephel,

Thanks for your response.

What in your view is the strongest scriptural proof against sola scriptura? Would it be 2Thess 2:15 or 1 Tim 3:15?
 
SemperReformada said:
I fear wasting my time on a wild goose chase.

Really, until you provide a primary source there isn’t any reason for anyone to post a response.
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I actually just listened to the whole clip. I understand your hesitation and would probably balk if I protestant gave me something to listen to as well. But, after hearing Dr. Anders describe his experiences during his time in seminary with a focus on Church history and pursuing a PhD in religious thought I would highly recommend this. If anything, to hear protestant reaction to his discoveries. I can’t speak for protestants, but it would seem that it would be rather eye opening.
 
Murphs10 said:
I actually just listened to the whole clip. I understand your hesitation and would probably balk if I protestant gave me something to listen to as well. But, after hearing Dr. Anders describe his experiences during his time in seminary with a focus on Church history and pursuing a PhD in religious thought I would highly recommend this. If anything, to hear protestant reaction to his discoveries. I can’t speak for protestants, but it would seem that it would be rather eye opening.
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Thanks. I’ll have to put it on my to do list.
 
SemperReformada said:
Ephel,

Thanks for your response.

What in your view is the strongest scriptural proof against sola scriptura? Would it be 2Thess 2:15 or 1 Tim 3:15?
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Both of these are equally strong. 2 Thessalonians 2:15 demonstrates that we are to hold on to tradition, and not “scripture alone.”

1 Timothy 3:15 refutes the Protestant notion of a general “Christian church” that is composed of all believers. The Catholic Church must be the “pillar of truth” referenced in this verse because it has taught the same truth for 2,000 years, whereas all of the Christians in the world cannot agree on fundamental issues such as the Trinity, the nature of Christ, etc., or moral issues such as birth control, homosexuality and abortion. The Holy Spirit cannot have been the author of these confusions, but He certainly protected the Catholic Church from error, as per Matthew 16:18-19.
 
EphelDuath said:
Both of these are equally strong. 2 Thessalonians 2:15 demonstrates that we are to hold on to tradition, and not “scripture alone.”

1 Timothy 3:15 refutes the Protestant notion of a general “Christian church” that is composed of all believers. The Catholic Church must be the “pillar of truth” referenced in this verse because it has taught the same truth for 2,000 years, whereas all of the Christians in the world cannot agree on fundamental issues such as the Trinity, the nature of Christ, etc., or moral issues such as birth control, homosexuality and abortion. The Holy Spirit cannot have been the author of these confusions, but He certainly protected the Catholic Church from error, as per Matthew 16:18-19.
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Are you arguing that 1 Timothy 3:15 is a proof for the infallibility of the church?
 
SemperReformada said:
Are you arguing that 1 Timothy 3:15 is a proof for the infallibility of the church?
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Yes. Truth is from God, and God cannot err and will not deceive. Therefore, if the Church is THE pillar of truth, it must be infallible.
 
brb3 said:
J. Calvin [and many others] claimed to be God’s prophet, and to possess inerrant ability to read/interpret scripture. Scriptures proves him wrong, a liar, and a dead man talking !
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I am no scholar, I have read sections from Calvin’s “Institutes” particularly on his views concerning pre-destination. To me he is a man who genuinely believes that he has a unique special prophetic calling or election status with an ability to infallibly interpret scripture. On this point, I believe there can be no middle ground in regards to him. You can’t cherry pick or refine his theology and hold him to being an elected instrument of God. It’s a lot to put on one person, but to hold to his theology you have to take him at his word. If you can match him comfortably 100% to scripture then his theology is the way to go, if you can’t I believe in my opinion you have to jettison his system in it’s entirety.

God Bless
 
SemperReformada said:
Are you arguing that 1 Timothy 3:15 is a proof for the infallibility of the church?
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Yes. This is beyond dispute.

Additionally add Luke 24:45-53

Then he opened their minds to UNDERSTAND THE SCRIPTURES, and he said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to ALL NATIONS, BEGINNING IN JERUSALEM. You are witnesses of these things. And behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you; but stay in the city, until you are CLOTHED WITH POWER FROM ON HIGH.” Then he led them out as far as Bethany, and lifting up his hands he blessed them. And they returned to Jerusalem with great joy, and WERE CONTINUALLY IN THE TEMPLE BLESSING GOD.

The Church has superceded the Jewish Temple, as of Pentecost 33 AD. Christ blesses us via the sacraments of the Church, gives us understanding of the scriptures, and keeps his Church ‘clothed’ with power from on high.
 
brb3 said:
No… you have adequate time. You just fear what truth you might learn of !

Until you learn to search for truths outside your comfort zone … you will not advance in wisdom. Prove me wrong :yup:
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I work 60 hours a week. I have maybe 2 hours a week to devote to ecumenism and you think that because I don’t listen to your mp3 I am scared of something. I’m sorry but you are being rediculous. Either provide a primary source or do not expect to be taken seriously.
 
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