John Chapter 6, What Does It Really Say?

[Lilyflower]

So what is 1Cor 10=2325, Mt 26:26:27 and Lk :22;19=20 saying

Amen, life in Christ is all there is.

 

[JonNC]

So what is 1Cor 10=2325, Mt 26:26:27 and Lk :22;19=20 saying

I think you meant 1 Cor. 11: 23-25.

They are saying literally and specifically what John 6 is saying in a more figurative, and perhaps predictive way.

=gurneyhalleck1;5396954]
Martin Luther, who believed in the Real Presence, believed that John 6 is metaphorical and spiritually significant, but not a good argument for the Real Presence. He cited the actual Last Supper itself and Paul’s points about the Eucharist in Corinthians.

Just to play Devil’s Advocate here, most Protestants who do not believe in Transubstantiation would cite what Jesus says after the Bread of Life discourse. "It is the spirit that gives life while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

Of course, you and I would probably argue that he was not referring to his own flesh.

Jon

 

[wmscott]

It seems quite clear to me that Jesus cannot be speaking entirely literally in this chapter. I will deal with just one verse that shows this most strongly.

Or as the Douhay-Rheims puts it.

My understanding of transubstantiation is that it holds the elements are objectively changed into the body and blood of Christ. Whoever or whatever eats the elements receives that body and blood of Christ. A recent reply on Ask an Apologist said that is true even if it is eaten by a bird.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=350059&highlight=animal

If this is the case then a pagan who goes to a Catholic Church and illicitly receives the Eucharist has eaten the body and blood of Christ. If He is speaking literally, Jesus clearly says that if anyone does this, that person will live forever, so the pagan would live forever. Unless the Catholic Church agrees with this outcome Jesus is not speaking entirely literally.

John 6 is not so clear as you may think. Augustine, a doctor and saint of the Church said:

newadvent.org/fathers/12023.htm

Whatever he may have thought with respect to the Real Presence, Augustine apparently did not take all of John 6 literally.

Hence the problem with personal interpretations. I have seen so many times where Protestants say if it is not in the Bible then it is not true. They apply a literal translation when it supports their position, however when it provides evidence of a Catholic Truth then it is figurative in meaning and has not merit to believe it as what the Catholic Church would teach it. it cant be both ways.

 

[geometer]

Of course, you and I would probably argue that he was not referring to his own flesh.

However, according to the doctrine that he was completely human, it cannot be argued that his actual flesh was special in any way. His flesh was human flesh or the gospel is subverted. He brought the power to men to become sons of God, even though almost all continue to ignore any thought of that realization for themselves. They think of Jesus as something completely other, instead of brother and friend.

He is the bread that came down from heaven, this is his gospel…

 

[Lilyflower]

Hence the problem with personal interpretations. I have seen so many times where Protestants say if it is not in the Bible then it is not true. They apply a literal translation when it supports their position, however when it provides evidence of a Catholic Truth then it is figurative in meaning and has not merit to believe it as what the Catholic Church would teach it. it cant be both ways.

One is assuming the pagan realises the significance of their actions. That is to say, they have publicly confessed their human weakness, sought reconciliation and has now accepted the way of Christ. If they had not, they would not be receiving worthily.

If they had, they would no longer be pagans but Christians so as Christians, yes, they would no doubt be admitted to eternal life.

Blessings and peace