John Chrysostom view of animals before the fall

[E_CT]

In Chrysostom’s 7th homily on genesis in section 5 it seems that he says God made animals able to be fruitful and multiply so they could continue existing. Does anyone know if he believed animals died before the fall like some other church fathers did and if that’s what he is saying in this section. I know he believed animals were vegetarian before that fall so that means they weren’t eating each other before the fall. I am asking this because I just want to understand his position on this topic. Here is a link to the homily. Homily 7 on Genesis - Patristic Bible Commentary

 

[Vico]

Merriam-Webster, definition of ferocious (adjective):
1. exhibiting or given to extreme fierceness and unrestrained violence and brutality

From 5, they were created good, even though ferocious, yet “we have lost the empire and authority over them [the ferocious beasts and reptiles]”:

It is not even ferocious beasts and reptiles that are not useful to us; and although since the disobedience of our first parents we have lost the empire and authority over them, whoever thinks of it seriously will convince himself that we still derive valuable benefits from it. And, indeed, the doctors draw several remedies for the cure of our diseases. Besides, how could the creation of ferocious animals be blameworthy, since they, like domestic animals, had to submit to the man whom God was about to create? And that’s what I’m talking about.

 

[E_CT]

That’s interesting because in one of his other homily’s he says that when he gave man plants to eat it was also what animals ate. Also in his homily on romans 8:20 he says creation became corruptible when Adam sinned. Meanwhile it seems he says animals died at the beginning of section 5 of his 7th homily on Genesis when he says that they were to be fruitful and multiply to not go extinct. I am having a hard time reconciling what he says, I might be looking too into some of the things he said.

 

[E_CT]

it was homily 10 section 5 where he says that all animals are to eat plants. Homily 10 on Genesis - Patristic Bible Commentary

 

[Vico]

it was homily 10 section 5 where he says that all animals are to eat plants. Homily 10 on Genesis - Patristic Bible Commentary

And in 10, 6 states:

It was he who commanded the land to produce beneficial plants and poisonous herbs, fruit trees, and barren trees, sweet and familiar animals, and wild and feral animals. It was he who peopled the waters of the smallest fish, no less than whales and sea monsters, which rendered some parts of the earth habitable, and others inhospitable; who spread the plains, and who raised the hills and the mountains; it is he who among the birds has created the domestic species which serve our food, and the wild and filthy species, like the vulture and the kite; and among the terrestrial animals he has produced and those who are useful to us, and those who are harmful to us, the serpents, the vipers and the dragons, the lions and the leopards. Finally it is he who, in the regions of the atmosphere, also gives birth to the rain and the beneficial winds, the snow and the hail. Thus, in going through the entire order of creation, we always find the bad beside the good, and yet we are not allowed to blame any creature, and to say: why such a creature , and for what purpose? This is well done, and it is badly done. For Scripture warns and represses all these criticisms by saying that at the end of the sixth day, God having completed creation, lives all his works, and that they were very good.

 

[Gorgias]

it was homily 10 section 5 where he says that all animals are to eat plants. Homily 10 on Genesis - Patristic Bible Commentary

A couple of thoughts:

• the green plants God gives as food to “all the creatures that crawl on the earth.” Yet, that’s not the entirety of living things on the earth! In v.26, we see the earth-dwellers as “the birds of the air, the tame animals and all the wild animals, and all the creatures that crawl on the earth.” So, he might have given plants to the crawlers, but what about the wild animals and the birds?
• Just because God says “I give this to these animals”, doesn’t imply that they’re forbidden other foods as well.

 

[E_CT]

Thank you I do not know how I missed that. I also do not know how to reconcile what he says in that paragraph with what he says in his 14th homily on romans when looking at romans 8:20. Where he says regarding creation “Why that it became corruptible. For what cause, and on what account? On account of you, O man. For since you have taken a body mortal and liable to suffering, the earth too has received a curse, and brought forth thorns and thistles.” Is he just referring to the curse on the ground regarding its productivity or does it seem like he goes beyond that regarding what he is talking about being “corrupted”.
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/210214.htm

 

[E_CT]

Yeah I did not think about that I believe Aquinas comes to that conclusion that it does not refer to the only food they could eat.

 

[Vico]

Thank you I do not know how I missed that. I also do not know how to reconcile what he says in that paragraph with what he says in his 14th homily on romans when looking at romans 8:20. Where he says regarding creation “Why that it became corruptible. For what cause, and on what account? On account of you, O man. For since you have taken a body mortal and liable to suffering, the earth too has received a curse, and brought forth thorns and thistles.” Is he just referring to the curse on the ground regarding its productivity or does it seem like he goes beyond that regarding what he is talking about being “corrupted”.
CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 14 on Romans (Chrysostom)

You are welcome.

One commentary, Haydock, has this comment from Abbot Antoine Augustin Calmet, O.S.B. (1672-1757)

Genesis 3, Verse 18
Thorns, &c. These were created at first, but they would have easily been kept under: now they grow with surprising luxuriancy, and the necessaries of life can be procured only with much labour. All men here are commanded to work, each in his proper department. The Jews were careful to teach their children some trade or useful occupation. St. Paul made tents, and proclaims, If any man will not work, neither let him eat, 2 Thessalonians iii. 10. (Calmet)