John Hagees' "Defense for Israel"

[whatistruth]

Hello bretherens,

I am sure by now many of you have caught wind in Hagees’ latest book “Defense for Israel”. His statements will make you a little upset. Here are some of his quotes:

1. “Jesus did not come to earth to be the Messiah”
2. "There was a Calvary conspiracy between Rome, Ciaphas, and Herod.
3. “Jesus refused by word to claim he was the Messiah”
4. “How can the Jews be blamed for what Jesus never offered”

The last time I checked it was all of the things that had him put to death, prophesy fulfilled. Jesus has clearly made his message known that he is the Truth, the Way, and the Life and no one goes to the Father except from the Son. What about when Jesus wept for Jerusalem right before his passion? He wept because of the refusal to recognize him as the Messiah! I appreciate his voice against anti-semetism but this is going to far. As christians we should be evangelizing to anyone who has a pulse. By the power of the Holy Spirit, Peter converted 3,000 Jews at Pentecost. Are we now to believe we are to stop evangelizing to the Jewish communities, Islam. Buddhist,etc. I thought the entire bible was to be a navigational tool to lead ALL into righteousness and not only implying to those in the Apostolic era. “Go therefore and Baptise all nations”. Jesus never stated" except the Jewish communities", that is what the role of the Apostles was to bring back all of the lost tribes of Israel. Am I missing something here or am I understanding the True Gospel of Jesus Christ?

I will not throw any stones at John Hagee. I pray for him to lead others to the True Gospel of Jesus Christ and not a gospel of his own as St.Paul clearly warned against.

I love the country of Israel and all of the Jewish community but they need to be brought back into the Lord God’s covenant thru Jesus Christ and his Church. The New Israel are those who have been baptised into Jesus Christ. His Church is the new Temple that was destoyed in A.D.70. Attempts to push money into the country of Israel to rebuild the temple is a waste of time and money and to believe we are granted graces from God for doing so is misleading to faithful christians.

Shalom

 

[jesusluv]

I’m not a big fan of John Hagee, but I will refuse to offer a judgement for or against this book unless I were to actually read it. The quotes you have are said by him to stir up interest and controversy because you think “I thought he was Christian” “why would he say these things”. It’s a sales pitch. It is also working. I’m sure many are buying it to see exactly what he’s trying to say.

 

[Ricardo_Gomez]

Is this John Hagees the same author of “Jerusalem Count down”? Becuase if he is we should’nt be here at all. Because in one of his tv programs is explained how the end of the world will come before 2007, and that was the reason he wrote the book.

 

[Metaron]

His statements will make you a little upset. Here are some of his quotes:

1. “Jesus did not come to earth to be the Messiah”

Of course He did! If He didn’t intend to be crucified, who would have saved us? And He referred to Himself as the “Son of Man” a messianic title.

1. “There was a Calvary conspiracy between Rome, Ciaphas, and Herod.”

I don’t remember Pilate wanting to crucify Him… Herod just wanted to see majic tricks-- he heard about Jesus’ miracles.

1. “Jesus refused by word to claim he was the Messiah”

He did when they interrogated Him! How could he possibly overlook that?!

1. “How can the Jews be blamed for what Jesus never offered”

For one, we ALL crucified Jesus, not just the Jews, not just the Romans… all of our sins crucified him. And Jesus did offer the Sanhedrin and organized Jewish religion His Messiahship, and they did reject him. They should be evangelized, just like every other ethnic group.

 

[angelusm]

Hello bretherens,

I am sure by now many of you have caught wind in Hagees’ latest book “Defense for Israel”. His statements will make you a little upset. Here are some of his quotes:

1. “Jesus did not come to earth to be the Messiah”
2. "There was a Calvary conspiracy between Rome, Ciaphas, and Herod.
3. “Jesus refused by word to claim he was the Messiah”
4. “How can the Jews be blamed for what Jesus never offered”

The last time I checked it was all of the things that had him put to death, prophesy fulfilled. Jesus has clearly made his message known that he is the Truth, the Way, and the Life and no one goes to the Father except from the Son. What about when Jesus wept for Jerusalem right before his passion? He wept because of the refusal to recognize him as the Messiah! I appreciate his voice against anti-semetism but this is going to far. As christians we should be evangelizing to anyone who has a pulse. By the power of the Holy Spirit, Peter converted 3,000 Jews at Pentecost. Are we now to believe we are to stop evangelizing to the Jewish communities, Islam. Buddhist,etc. I thought the entire bible was to be a navigational tool to lead ALL into righteousness and not only implying to those in the Apostolic era. “Go therefore and Baptise all nations”. Jesus never stated" except the Jewish communities", that is what the role of the Apostles was to bring back all of the lost tribes of Israel. Am I missing something here or am I understanding the True Gospel of Jesus Christ?

I will not throw any stones at John Hagee. I pray for him to lead others to the True Gospel of Jesus Christ and not a gospel of his own as St.Paul clearly warned against.

I love the country of Israel and all of the Jewish community but they need to be brought back into the Lord God’s covenant thru Jesus Christ and his Church. The New Israel are those who have been baptised into Jesus Christ. His Church is the new Temple that was destoyed in A.D.70. Attempts to push money into the country of Israel to rebuild the temple is a waste of time and money and to believe we are granted graces from God for doing so is misleading to faithful christians.

Shalom

We definitely should evangelise everybody including Jews. The New Israel are catholics (plus others in unity with the pope).

 

[whatistruth]

We definitely should evangelise everybody including Jews. The New Israel are catholics (plus others in unity with the pope).

Thank you for pointing this out. It is nice to see a thread posted and the Truths flow from it. The main reason why I decided to post is because my family are followers of him and they are starting to think like him and falling from the Gospel message of Jesus.

 

[SolaFide]

Hello bretherens,

I am sure by now many of you have caught wind in Hagees’ latest book “Defense for Israel”. His statements will make you a little upset. Here are some of his quotes:

1. “Jesus did not come to earth to be the Messiah”
2. "There was a Calvary conspiracy between Rome, Ciaphas, and Herod.
3. “Jesus refused by word to claim he was the Messiah”
4. “How can the Jews be blamed for what Jesus never offered”

The last time I checked it was all of the things that had him put to death, prophesy fulfilled. Jesus has clearly made his message known that he is the Truth, the Way, and the Life and no one goes to the Father except from the Son. What about when Jesus wept for Jerusalem right before his passion? He wept because of the refusal to recognize him as the Messiah! I appreciate his voice against anti-semetism but this is going to far. As christians we should be evangelizing to anyone who has a pulse. By the power of the Holy Spirit, Peter converted 3,000 Jews at Pentecost. Are we now to believe we are to stop evangelizing to the Jewish communities, Islam. Buddhist,etc. I thought the entire bible was to be a navigational tool to lead ALL into righteousness and not only implying to those in the Apostolic era. “Go therefore and Baptise all nations”. Jesus never stated" except the Jewish communities", that is what the role of the Apostles was to bring back all of the lost tribes of Israel. Am I missing something here or am I understanding the True Gospel of Jesus Christ?

I will not throw any stones at John Hagee. I pray for him to lead others to the True Gospel of Jesus Christ and not a gospel of his own as St.Paul clearly warned against.

I love the country of Israel and all of the Jewish community but they need to be brought back into the Lord God’s covenant thru Jesus Christ and his Church. **The New Israel are those who have been baptised into Jesus Christ. His Church is the new Temple that was destoyed in A.D.70. **Attempts to push money into the country of Israel to rebuild the temple is a waste of time and money and to believe we are granted graces from God for doing so is misleading to faithful christians.

Shalom

First let me make very clear that Jews and Gentiles alike must come to Jesus Christ in repentance (Acts 20:21, Romans 1:16) but the church most assuredly HAS NOT replaced Israel! God still has a plan for Israel and He will complete it! If God is done with Israel then His land grant promises to Abraham was a lie and his dynasty promise to David as well.

Israel never did occupy the land to the borders promised to Abraham (all the way east to the Euphrates river and all the way South to the Sinai peninsula). Also, if God is done with Israel then Gabriel’s greeting speech to Mary was a lie.

uk 1:26 In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee,
Luk 1:27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary.
Luk 1:28 The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”
Luk 1:29 Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be.
Luk 1:30 But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God.
Luk 1:31 You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus.
Luk 1:32 **He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,**Luk 1:33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end.”

David’s throne didn’t exist in Jesus’ day. It hadn’t existed since the Babylonian exile. The Herods were Idumeans (that’s fancy Greek talk for Edomites!). The Davidic throne is an earthly, geo-political throne, not a spiritual one!

Jesus WILL sit on David’s throne on the earth during His millenial reign. Thus the promise to Mary and to David will be fulfilled literally. You know the Jews looking for their Messiah didn’t accept Jesus because they were expecting a literal ruler to sit on a literal throne. Jesus never said they were wrong about that, they were just wrong on the timing. He had to come as a suffering servant first, and that’s what they didn’t understand.

When Y’shua haMashiach came the first time he came as the Lamb of God and everyone wanted the Lion of Judah. The second time he comes he WILL come as the Lion of Judah, to judge and make war, when now all that anyone wants is the lamb.

 

[Metaron]

First let me make very clear that Jews and Gentiles alike must come to Jesus Christ in repentance (Acts 20:21, Romans 1:16) but the church most assuredly HAS NOT replaced Israel! God still has a plan for Israel and He will complete it! If God is done with Israel then His land grant promises to Abraham was a lie and his dynasty promise to David as well.

I think they have been replaced by the Church, but they still have a special place in God’s Heart. His land grants were certainly not a lie! Israel certainly has a right to the land they own and possibly more. But now is the time of the Church, the New Israel. Once the Great Tribulation begins, God will continue His plan for the Jews, and 144,000 of them will convert. So He is’nt “done” with them just yet.

When Y’shua haMashiach came the first time he came as the Lamb of God and everyone wanted the Lion of Judah. The second time he comes he WILL come as the Lion of Judah, to judge and make war, when now all that anyone wants is the lamb.

Definately.

 

[whatistruth]

I am sorry to inform you but the “Church” is the New Israel and the Throne of David is a spiritual one. Please do not proof text the responses. Let’s read the bible in its complete context. A reading I strongly encourage you to read is"The City of God" by St.Augustine. His writings on this subject matter is very clear, it will be helpful for all. This is a great example of why private interpretation is dangerous. Individuals believe they can pick up the bible and start interpreting everything on their own. You need an informative Church to clarify what is Truth and what is not. All of my responses come from an authoritative Church approaching 2000 years old made up of Bishops with Apostolic Succession;the early apostolic fathers. The" Church" is Jesus most adored possession, it is what he gave himself up for “The New Israel” made up of Jews and Gentiles and not to exclude the Jews from this Church. I hope this information is helpful.

 

[ryanoneil]

The Church, including the remnant of Jews who converted, is the new Israel of God. “Peace and mercy be to all who follow this rule and to the Israel of God.” (Gal. 6:16)

Israel did occupy the land promised to Abraham. “Thus the LORD gave to Israel all the land which he swore to give to their fathers; and having taken possession of it, they settled there” (Jos. 21:43).

"Blessed be the LORD who has given rest to his people Israel, according to all that he promised; not one word has failed of all his good promise, which he uttered by Moses his servant” (1 Kings 8:56).

“Thou art the LORD, the God who didst choose Abram and bring him forth out of Ur of the Chalde’ans and give him the name Abraham; and thou didst find his heart faithful before thee, and didst make with him the covenant to give to his descendants the land of the Canaanite, the Hittite, the Amorite, the Per’izzite, the Jeb’usite, and the Gir’gashite; and thou hast fulfilled thy promise, for thou art righteous” (Neh. 9:7-8).

David’s Throne? Psalm 45:7 - Therefore God, your God, has anointed you. God calls someone else God. This someone else is His eternally begotten Son - Heb. 1:9 - Therefore God, your God, has anointed you. cf. Heb. 1:8, 10.

Peace,

Ryan

 

[Muzhik]

Whatistruth, Shalom! I believe the actions and words of both Popes John Paul and Benedict have demonstrated a rejection of Replacement Theology as put forth by St. Augustine. While not denying the beauty, truth, and inspiration of St. Augustine’s writings, I do not believe they are infallible. Therefore, I believe his conclusions of the Church replacing Israel are in error.

I would suggesting reading David Brog’s book, “Standing with Israel” for an interesting analysis of the role “City of God” played in the development and growth of European antisemitism.

Your brother in Christ;

<>

 

[Metaron]

Whatistruth, Shalom! I believe the actions and words of both Popes John Paul and Benedict have demonstrated a rejection of Replacement Theology as put forth by St. Augustine. While not denying the beauty, truth, and inspiration of St. Augustine’s writings, I do not believe they are infallible. Therefore, I believe his conclusions of the Church replacing Israel are in error.

I would suggesting reading David Brog’s book, “Standing with Israel” for an interesting analysis of the role “City of God” played in the development and growth of European antisemitism.

Your brother in Christ;

<>

Muzhik, shalom! I think both sides are right to a certain extent. Please see my above post. I don’t think that St.Augustine really wanted to encourage antisemitism, though.

 

[whatistruth]

Whatistruth, Shalom! I believe the actions and words of both Popes John Paul and Benedict have demonstrated a rejection of Replacement Theology as put forth by St. Augustine. While not denying the beauty, truth, and inspiration of St. Augustine’s writings, I do not believe they are infallible. Therefore, I believe his conclusions of the Church replacing Israel are in error.

I would suggesting reading David Brog’s book, “Standing with Israel” for an interesting analysis of the role “City of God” played in the development and growth of European antisemitism.

Your brother in Christ;

<>

Muzhik, my reference to St.Augustine “City of God” is his explanation of the Church as the New Israel. Before we reject his works let us not forget he is a Saint and Doctor of the Church and A statue placed in ST.Peter’s Basilica. The thing I love about being Catholic is anytime we are in discussion and we can not come to full agreement on a topic, all we need to do is go to the gift of the Holy Spirit to his Church:“The Catechism of the Catholic Church”. Read articles #731-933. This is the biggest difference between Catholics and the John Hagees, we have accountabilty and he does not. This will keep you and I from error. Another great reference is to do a Google search for Scott Hahn’s paper on" The Kingdom and the Church in Luke and Acts". This is by far one of the best papres written on the Kingdom of God. And by the way, one more time “The Kingdom of God is the Church and The New Israel”! and it is for ALL Jews and Gentiles, no double covenant theology here.

Shalom

Shalo

 

[edaw]

hi all, new to forum. Was reading thread and saw David Brog’s book, “Standing with Israel” mentioned so I thought I’d post. I’m currently reading it and I apologize if this offends anyone but I’ve got to say it’s the most blatant example of Zionist propaganda I’ve read to date. The reason I began it was to get a better understanding of the Christian Zionists/dispensationalist view, I didn’t expect this.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

I love the country of Israel

Palestinian Christians Exodus

BETHLEHEM — Palestine, the birthplace of Jesus Christ, is losing many of its young Christians who, reeling under the yoke of the Israeli occupation and economic hardships, are seeking a better life abroad.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...goBlobs&blobwhere=1239259067208&ssbinary=true

“They can’t easily adapt to the hardships associated with the stressful situation stemming from the Israeli occupation,” Dr. Jamal Khadr, a priest at the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem, told IslamOnline.net.

In recent decades, thousands of Christians left the occupied West Bank for a new life abroad, especially in North and South America, Australia, Scandinavia and even Africa.

full report here :

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1237706083667&pagename=Zone-English-News%2FNWELayout

 

[ralphinal]

Hagee is a huckster. He is a sham. He preaches that Catholics are devils until confronted by Catholics and politicians who want Catholic votes that he supports.

He believes that if Isreal rebuilds the Temple, Jesus will return. He wants man to force the Hand of God.

 

[Muzhik]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Palestinian Christians Exodus

BETHLEHEM — Palestine, the birthplace of Jesus Christ, is losing many of its young Christians who, reeling under the yoke of the Israeli occupation and economic hardships, are seeking a better life abroad.

“They can’t easily adapt to the hardships associated with the stressful situation stemming from the Israeli occupation,” Dr. Jamal Khadr, a priest at the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem, told IslamOnline.net.

In recent decades, thousands of Christians left the occupied West Bank for a new life abroad, especially in North and South America, Australia, Scandinavia and even Africa.

Ma’am, I cannot take this report seriously, because I cannot believe the source. Every other report I’ve read on the Christians leaving the Holy Land have brought up the fact that it is violence and criminality by the resident Muslims that are forcing the Christians to leave, not any actions by Israel. Christians are having their lives threatened and their businesses vandalized not by Jews but by their Muslim neighbors. When they go to the police the Christians cannot get any action either because they are dhimmi, or because the police are afraid of what the local “liberation groups” will do to them if the police ask too many questions.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Palestinian Christians Exodus

BETHLEHEM — Palestine, the birthplace of Jesus Christ, is losing many of its young Christians who, reeling under the yoke of the Israeli occupation and economic hardships, are seeking a better life abroad.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...goBlobs&blobwhere=1239259067208&ssbinary=true

“They can’t easily adapt to the hardships associated with the stressful situation stemming from the Israeli occupation,” Dr. Jamal Khadr, a priest at the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem, told IslamOnline.net.

In recent decades, thousands of Christians left the occupied West Bank for a new life abroad, especially in North and South America, Australia, Scandinavia and even Africa.

full report here :

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1237706083667&pagename=Zone-English-News%2FNWELayout

This is an unreliable news source. No offense to your religious views, but time and again it has been proven that the Jews are not the ones doing the violence except to retaliate against Muslim’s unwarranted attacks on the Jews very existance. Those are the facts.

 

[MrDickerson]

The Jewish people killed Jesus and are guilty of deicide. Period. In the Talmud, a Jew who ties a man to a tree and leaves him to starve to death is not guilty of murder, because he killed him in an indirect way. To this day, the Jews–who ARE the #1 enemy of Jesus Christ and His Church and always have been–claim that only the Romans are responsible for Christ’s death, because they only killed him in an indirect way–by threatening to revolt if He was not crucified. “His blood be upon us and our children!”

Where the faith is strong, Jewish power is weak; where the faith is weak, Jewish power is strong.

 

[MrDickerson]

This is an unreliable news source. No offense to your religious views, but time and again it has been proven that the Jews are not the ones doing the violence except to retaliate against Muslim’s unwarranted attacks on the Jews very existance. Those are the facts.

Jews are even worse than Muslims. Muslims are violent and bloodthirsty but they kill the body. Jews are a threat to the soul of Christian civilization because for 2,000 years they have been working behind the scenes to destroy it and it looks like they have nearly succeeded. Look at how rotten society has become because of all the Jewish smut put out on our televisions and in our movie theaters. It’s because Hollywood is a Jewish industry.

Zionism is an enemy of Christ and the state of “Eretz Israel” has not right to exist and is illegally occupying the Holy Land.