John Lennon in hell?

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There was a story that went through Evangelical circles like wildfire about ten years ago or so about a group of recent converts and a common vision they had. They were in Colombia (this is significant) and some had converted from the RCC. Anyway, they had a vision of hell, and the hell they saw included John Lennon being tormented for losing his faith. Apparently Lennon had a brief conversion experience in the mid70’s, detailed in a book by Steve Turner (christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/januaryweb-only/001-22.0.html).

As Turner writes, Yoko Ono travelled to Colombia in the 70’s and consulted a witch. If what these “visionaries” say is true, then is it possible that that act came back to haunt her?

BTW, I do not think that Lennon’s “conversion” was a conversion. I think it may have been inquiry and sentimentality, but I don’t think he ever had faith to lose. This is just my opinion. I also think that it’s interesting that the “visionaries” version of hell was modelled on Dante, and some of them had left the RCC for Evangelicalism.

What do you think?
 
I think we should leave John Lennon’s and everyone else’s soul to God’s mercy.
 
I think it’s nonsense and probably best not to speculate!
 
I think that title makes my stomach hurt. 😦

As an artist, I’ve always had an admiration for John Lennon, because he had talent and he really did try to put it towards making the world a better place. Isn’t that the higher calling of the arts?

I find it hard to believe that someone who was so full of the ideals of peace would end up in Hell. Purgatory, maybe, but most of us are going that way for one reason or another. But not Hell.
 
Like someone else said, it’s not our business where John Lennon wound up, it’s God’s. John Lennon is God’s child and only God can judge where he goes.
 
My boss is a major John Lennon fan. Me, I don’t care for his solo work at all, and I really dislike the song “Imagine”. But I love his work with the Beatles!! As for the state of his soul, I don’t know and won’t speculate. I leave him to the infinite mercy of God and pray for him.
 
Zooey said:
Amen from here!! And I will just add: “May John’s soul, & the souls of all those departed rest in peace”.
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Ditto.

I once saw a documentary on his life, and at one point he had a - for lack of a better word - “stalker” who lived out around the grounds of his home for days - camping out there and trying to catch glimpses of John. This stalker was in awe of John Lennon and thought he walked on water (my words for emphasis, not those of the show).

John and Yoko finally caught up with him and made him come inside, shower, and gave him a meal to eat. John sat at the table with him for a long time trying to convnce him that he - John - was just a regular guy, nothing special about him, imperfect as all the rest of us. He was very kind to him. He sent him on his way and asked him to stop following him - to go on with his own life.

just fyi…
 
katy said:
I think we should leave John Lennon’s and everyone else’s soul to God’s mercy.
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Agreed. I saw something once on the local bible thumper channel about rock music, the devil, etc. It was a sermon I believe and the guy said Lennon was in hell and we know that because earlier in the day, blah, blah, blah. I thought - you arrogant ! How can anyone know the state of one’s soul except for God?!?! It really ticked me off.
 
I don’t think I made myself very clear in my first post. I do not think that JL is in hell, suffering eternal torment. What interests me is the vision itself and why they had it. Like I said, this story swept through Evangelical circles – that I was a part of – about 1996 or so, along with rumors that JL had once contacted one of the big ministers but ultimately rejected Christ. As it turns out he wrote to Oral Roberts and sent a gift for his ministry (Steve Turner writes about this in his book).

Whenever it was recounted to me, it was always couched as a morality tale. “John Lennon converted once, but then he walked away from God and now he’s in hell.” A scare tactic of sorts from the same people who used to pass around petitions to keep Madalyn Murray O’Hair from removing religious programming from television (I received several of these emails even after O’Hair’s death became public). It just never really squared with “Once Saved, Always Saved,” among other things.

Anyway, it leads me a couple of questions. One, what exactly is “conversion”? It’s documented that JL did in fact write to Oral Roberts, asking if God could possibly love him and begging for direction out of his drug addiction. Later (according to Turner) he set the Lord’s Prayer to music and was deeply moved by a movie about Christ, but he apparently couldn’t get his head around Christ’s divinity. I have to say that I’m thankful that I went through RCIA, that there’s a whole process to joining the Catholic Church. At what point are we held accountable for converting, though?

Additionally, in the actual text of the vision that’s available online only one of the converts saw JL and s/he refers to the “satanic Beatles” and mentions his “more popular than Christ” comment in a “Who’s mocking Christ now?” manner. It strikes me as a whole lotta projecting, like this person was a Beatles fan and is now embarrassed about it or something. So why do we listen to such stuff? It feels like an Urban Legend, and they’re certainly not exclusive to the Evangelical community. Whatever happened to Christ’s admonition to be “wise as serpents but innocent as doves”?
 
I was told by my aunt who worked as a housekeeper at a Jesuit Retreat House in the 1960’s that two of the beatles were catholics but one or both of them were not practising.That is,John Lennon and Ringo Starr.I believe it was one of the jesuits who told her.However,John Lennon’s school,Dovedale Primary,doesn’t sound like a catholic school to me.Usually,catholic schools will have a Saint’s name.I read somewhere that John Lennon was actually raised as an Anglican and there seems to have been a fair amount of tragedy in his childhood.

hollywoodusa.co.uk/GravesOutofLA/johnlennon.htm
 
burnside said:
I was told by my aunt who worked as a housekeeper at a Jesuit Retreat House in the 1960’s that two of the beatles were catholics but one or both of them were not practising.That is,John Lennon and Ringo Starr.
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according to wikipedia, paul mccartney and george harrison are/were at least nominally catholic. both are of irish heritage.

remember that line from “let it be”: when i find myself in times of trouble, mother mary comes to me, speaking words of wisdom, let it be." hard to imagine a protestant writing that.
 
tomarin said:
remember that line from “let it be”: when i find myself in times of trouble, mother mary comes to me, speaking words of wisdom, let it be." hard to imagine a protestant writing that.
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Yes,but there is an anglo-catholic wing of the Church of England
and i think the English are generally more broadminded about catholic issues like Mary and the Saints.They are less so in Scotland.More like Northern Ireland up here.
 
Maybe instead of arguing about whether John Lennon is in Hell or not, we should use this as a reminder to pray for his soul which may very well be in Purgatory (although hopefully already in Heaven).

It sounds like JL was seeking in his life and that in itself may have been enough to cause him to call on the name of Jesus and save him at the moment of his death. We can only hope. 👍
 
jazzbaby1 said:
I don’t think I made myself very clear in my first post. I do not think that JL is in hell, suffering eternal torment. What interests me is the vision itself and why they had it. Like I said, this story swept through Evangelical circles – that I was a part of – about 1996 or so, along with rumors that JL had once contacted one of the big ministers but ultimately rejected Christ. As it turns out he wrote to Oral Roberts and sent a gift for his ministry (Steve Turner writes about this in his book).

Whenever it was recounted to me, it was always couched as a morality tale. “John Lennon converted once, but then he walked away from God and now he’s in hell.” A scare tactic of sorts from the same people who used to pass around petitions to keep Madalyn Murray O’Hair from removing religious programming from television (I received several of these emails even after O’Hair’s death became public). It just never really squared with “Once Saved, Always Saved,” among other things.

Anyway, it leads me a couple of questions. One, what exactly is “conversion”? It’s documented that JL did in fact write to Oral Roberts, asking if God could possibly love him and begging for direction out of his drug addiction. Later (according to Turner) he set the Lord’s Prayer to music and was deeply moved by a movie about Christ, but he apparently couldn’t get his head around Christ’s divinity. I have to say that I’m thankful that I went through RCIA, that there’s a whole process to joining the Catholic Church. At what point are we held accountable for converting, though?

Additionally, in the actual text of the vision that’s available online only one of the converts saw JL and s/he refers to the “satanic Beatles” and mentions his “more popular than Christ” comment in a “Who’s mocking Christ now?” manner. It strikes me as a whole lotta projecting, like this person was a Beatles fan and is now embarrassed about it or something. So why do we listen to such stuff? It feels like an Urban Legend, and they’re certainly not exclusive to the Evangelical community. Whatever happened to Christ’s admonition to be “wise as serpents but innocent as doves”?
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I don’t believe in anything that facantics say. I mean, these are probably the same evangelicals that claim the Pope is in hell.
 
child_of_God85 said:
I don’t believe in anything that facantics say. I mean, these are probably the same evangelicals that claim the Pope is in hell.
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You’re right. I read the review of Turner’s book and I guess it’s been on my mind. When I was a born again, I could never tell which way to turn. “That Jim Bakker’s doing some good work,” except, oops, and Jimmy Swaggart, etc. It’s like there’s a total lack of discernment, which leads to people believing whatever most scares them, or appeals to them. There are sincere believers out there that just buy whatever is shovelled at them, no matter how ridiculous it is, and they’re scared to challenge it because there’s always the fear in the back of their minds that they’re “grieving” the Holy Spirit and they certainly don’t want to commit the unpardonable sin (neatly defined in this tale as JL’s rejection of faith once held). So there are chain letters and blogs and enough Urban Legends to choke a horse but pitifully little knowledge and it just breaks my heart for those who are truly searching. I guess all I can do is pray for them to come to the Truth (and send up a little prayer for the soul of John Lennon, too, may he truly rest in peace).
 
Well, I know Paul was born Catholic. His mother’s name was Mary and she died while he was a teenager. The song “Let It Be” was written after he had a peaceful dream with his mother in it. But the song sounds almost as if it were inspired. I mean, Mary whispers words of wisdom, “Let it be.” That is what the mother of Christ is famous for saying.

As for Lennon, he supposedly had a short stint as an evangelical but pronounced himself a born again pagan (he was a self-pronounced pagan before his questionable conversion). Supposedly. I don’t blame him. I was raised non-denominational but the bible contradicted itself at every turn. I couldn’t believe in Christianity or apply to my life but by the context of the Catholic Church.

I don’t know about the conversion thing. But I have to be blunt and ask, what is so great about being converted from paganism to heresy? I don’t mean to offend anyone.

And yes, the whole story sounds very urban legend. The evangelicals are just mad that they burned all of their Beatles albums back in the 60’s, only to have to buy them again.
 
child_of_God85 said:
Like someone else said, it’s not our business where John Lennon wound up, it’s God’s. John Lennon is God’s child and only God can judge where he goes.
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Laudatur Iesus Christus.

Does this leave the faithful un-guided as to whether following a celebrity as an example is safe or good?

It is one thing to say that there may be some secret thing about a person that makes it possible that they are not damned. It is quite another to talk as though the many public sins and scandals that a celebrity commits are not damnable. It seems a reckless concession to evil to generally assume that hell is not waiting for public sinners.

Would it not be more useful – that is more loving – for those who are trying to find a way to live to tell them that certain things are damnable and that a person who does them is damned, unless he repented. We may not know whether a person repented, but we do know whether he committed certain sins.

Why play dumb?

Pax Christi nobiscum.

John Hiner
 
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