John MacArthur's ironic comment of the day

[distracted]

He does? From what I’ve heard, he calls them a front for Satan.
.

i never could fathom how a Church that is against all the things the Bible is against (fornication, abortion, homosexuality, etc) can be a “front for satan” or the anti-Christ…

for cyring out-loud!!

how come the masons are never called that? They want to destroy all of Christianity in the world… particularly the original Christian Church (RCC)…

strange world we live in … where up is down and black is white… and etc…

 

[distracted]

. . Love is a better way. Jesus says He has forgiven us all of our sin. That is good enought for me. When we sin, fellowship not salvation is broken. 1 Jn. 1:8-10 tells us to confess our sins to God and then He will forgive us our sins. We do not need a priest because all true christians are believer priets today able to directly go directly to God for personal forgivenss of their sins.

see how much this man ‘loves’ the sinner when one of them steals all his worldly goods… (or worse )…

see if he thinks this person (say this theif was once “born - again”) goes directly to Heaven when he dies… with no purification… no restitution… nothing…

of course, to maintain the argument in his favor without backing down…appearing to have lost it… he would probably say, even enthusiatically, “YEs, yes, he would go to Heaven directly…”

to which i say:

---

OH Pullleeeeeeeeeeeeasssssssssse!!! ***

 

[distracted]

**People who believe in OnceSavedAlwaysSaved are ignorant of the Bible… **

i don’t care how much they claim to have studied it…

When i was a lot younger, i read the New Testament more than once… but i just focused (as most humans do) on the parts that “made me happy”… as it were… the miracles, the Last Supper, God’s love for us, etc…

I did NOT KNOW the Bible… just because i had read it…

I now know it because of going to Mass as often as possible… As you may know, one can go through the entire bible by going to daily Mass for 3 yrs…

Also, i had exegesis from educated priests (and they are ALL educated… have to be in order to be a priest)…

You could tell by my past life that even though i had READ the bible, i did NOT (then) KNOW IT…

 

[Tomster]

The veneration of Mary, pregatory, salvation by works, traditions that are not found in the Bible, believing one can lose their salvation, praying to saints. Lack of assurance of being in heaven when you die, These just a few.

Well, I’m glad to see that at least you do not believe in OSAS. Some Protestants do.But, since there is no authoritaive mechanism with Protestantism to determine which view is correct, I guess you are left to your own personal interpretation of Scriptures. That is a frightful position to be in.

 

[DLClark]

i never could fathom how a Church that is against all the things the Bible is against (fornication, abortion, homosexuality, etc) can be a “front for satan” or the anti-Christ…

for cyring out-loud!!

how come the masons are never called that? They want to destroy all of Christianity in the world… particularly the original Christian Church (RCC)…

strange world we live in … where up is down and black is white… and etc…

When any religious group, no matter how Biblical they are on other points, teaches that works are needed for salvation that is not from God.

 

[MrS]

When any religious group, no matter how Biblical they are on other points, teaches that works are needed for salvation that is not from God.

Nope. The Church would respond that when any man or woman (and those who follow their erroneous teachings), no matter how Biblical they **think **they are, teaches that we are saved other than by…

Grace alone, through faith alone, working in Love (charity, actions, works)…

…THAT is not from God.

You are not really using the Scriptures, you are misusing them. I challenge you to search other treads on this site for good discussion from both “sides”. I am sure you will find many posts of those you can agree with. Notice that they come from lots of faith communities founded by men who chose to reject the only Church founded by Christ.

.

 

[josie_L]

Sigh. I’m almost starting to enjoy the smarmy world of anti-Catholic rhetoric. I’m starting a collection.

Oh, please do, that way we can all “enjoy the smarmy world of anti-Catholic rhetoric.”

 

[MrS]

Oh, please do, that way we can all “enjoy the smarmy world of anti-Catholic rhetoric.”

…most all stemming from their patron Loraine Boettner.

…most all refuted with ease by well catechised Catholics.

.

 

[josie_L]

…most all stemming from their patron Loraine Boettner.

…most all refuted with ease by well catechised Catholics.

.

Oh, yes, I heard of him, do you know what, go on Amazon.com and read the reviews for this particular book, almost all of them are negative, I took great satisfaction out of reading the comments. he!he!he!

 

[DLClark]

Nope. The Church would respond that when any man or woman (and those who follow their erroneous teachings), no matter how Biblical they **think **they are, teaches that we are saved other than by…

Grace alone, through faith alone, working in Love (charity, actions, works)…

…THAT is not from God.

You are not really using the Scriptures, you are misusing them. I challenge you to search other treads on this site for good discussion from both “sides”. I am sure you will find many posts of those you can agree with. Notice that they come from lots of faith communities founded by men who chose to reject the only Church founded by Christ.

.

No passage of Scripture teaches that works are needed for salvation. Israel already tried a works oriented salvation the Law and failed. That is why we are saved by grace through and not of works. Eph. 2:8-9.
Now here is something else that will help you undersand my point. “Salvation is a work of God for man, rather than a work of man for God.” No aspect of salvation is made to depend on human merit or works no matter how slight they may be. The word “gospel,” both noun and verb occurs 132 times in the New Testament. The word “repent,” with its noun and verb occurs only 58 times. But the word “faith,” both noun and verb forms occurs 492 times.
Faith assumes knowledge or recognition of some information. Before we can believe or have faith in anything we must know about it.
Romans 10:14 says, “”How shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?” Again, in Acts 18:8; Eph. 1:13; the Bible put hearing before believing. So faith presupposes knowledge.
If faith then presupposes knowledge, what must a person need to know? If one were to look up all the times “believe” and “faith” are used in the New Testament to see what a person must know about Christ, you will find four things:

1. Jesus Christ is God, John 20:31.
2. He is a real man, 1John 4:2.
3. He died for mans sins, Rom. 3:25.
4. He rose from the dead, Rom. 10:9.
   The New Testament declares the last two facts as the gospel and the one believing it will be saved.

This one word “believe” represents all that a sinner must have to be saved. It is believing the record that God has given to us about His Son. God could have chosen any word in any language he wished to express what a person must do to be saved. He chose the Greek word pisteuo, “believe,” and pistis, “faith,” and he used them emphatically. The Gospel of John, the one New Testament book written to get people saved, pisteuo occures ninety-nine times while the word metauoeo, repent does not occur at all.
Also, in Romans, Paul’s most extensive work on salvation, he used only one word faith. The 4th chapter of Romans is given to the subject. There are other words used for what a sinner must do to be saved. “Look,” “come,” “call,” and others are employed, but these are used as synonyms for faith.
If a person does not understand what it is to believe then they are not ready to be saved. In Matt. 13:13-16 Jesus taught that if people did not understand they could not be saved.
Many presentations of the gospel are thus misstated in various in subtle ways. Here is a list of just a few:

1. It is a most serious error to add any kind of human works as a requirement to be saved (Eph. 2:8-10).
2. It is also wrong to give the unsaved the impression that there is any saving virtue in promising to “lead the Christian life.”
3. A person is not saved because he prays. Many people pray who are not saved. In no scripture is salvation conditioned on asking or praying. Faith in the Savior and His finished work on the cross is all that is required.
4. No person is saved by seeking the Lord. In Isaiah 55:6 it is said to Israel “Seek ye the Lord while He may be found,” but in the New Testament we are told to believe only for salvation. It is the Son who came to “seek and save that which is lost”.
5. It is wrong to require repentance for sin as a preliminary act preceding or separate from personal faith in Christ. Repentance is included in believing and can not be separate from it. Repentance and faith are married like husband and wife or Siamese twins. When repentance occurs alone it includes faith. When faith occurs alone it implies repentance. They cannot be separate.
6. No scripture requires confession of sin as a condition of salvation. 1 John 1:8-9 is given to the believer only and is the condition for the restoration of the fellowship that has been lost with God because of sin.
7. No passage states or even implies that a sinner is saved by asking Jesus to come into his heart or life. Frequently Revelation 3:20 is used to support this ides of asking. But the context of the verse show otherwise. The passage is from the letter written to the church of Laodicea. Verses 15-17 the Lord talks about their condition. Verses 18-20 He offers His counsel. Their condition is that they are lukewarm verse 17. To be lukewarm is to be half-hearted Christians. Note very carefully that the subject is not their salvation but works or service. Also, note carefully that the letter is written to believers.

 

[Shannon9791]

No passage of Scripture teaches that works are needed for salvation. Israel already tried a works oriented salvation the Law and failed. That is why we are saved by grace through and not of works. Eph. 2:8-9.
Now here is something else that will help you undersand my point. “Salvation is a work of God for man, rather than a work of man for God.” No aspect of salvation is made to depend on human merit or works no matter how slight they may be. The word “gospel,” both noun and verb occurs 132 times in the New Testament. The word “repent,” with its noun and verb occurs only 58 times. But the word “faith,” both noun and verb forms occurs 492 times.
Faith assumes knowledge or recognition of some information. Before we can believe or have faith in anything we must know about it.
Romans 10:14 says, “”How shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?” Again, in Acts 18:8; Eph. 1:13; the Bible put hearing before believing. So faith presupposes knowledge.
If faith then presupposes knowledge, what must a person need to know? If one were to look up all the times “believe” and “faith” are used in the New Testament to see what a person must know about Christ, you will find four things:

1. Jesus Christ is God, John 20:31.
2. He is a real man, 1John 4:2.
3. He died for mans sins, Rom. 3:25.
4. He rose from the dead, Rom. 10:9.
   The New Testament declares the last two facts as the gospel and the one believing it will be saved.

This one word “believe” represents all that a sinner must have to be saved. It is believing the record that God has given to us about His Son. God could have chosen any word in any language he wished to express what a person must do to be saved. He chose the Greek word pisteuo, “believe,” and pistis, “faith,” and he used them emphatically. The Gospel of John, the one New Testament book written to get people saved, pisteuo occures ninety-nine times while the word metauoeo, repent does not occur at all.
Also, in Romans, Paul’s most extensive work on salvation, he used only one word faith. The 4th chapter of Romans is given to the subject. There are other words used for what a sinner must do to be saved. “Look,” “come,” “call,” and others are employed, but these are used as synonyms for faith.
If a person does not understand what it is to believe then they are not ready to be saved. In Matt. 13:13-16 Jesus taught that if people did not understand they could not be saved.
Many presentations of the gospel are thus misstated in various in subtle ways. Here is a list of just a few:

1. It is a most serious error to add any kind of human works as a requirement to be saved (Eph. 2:8-10).
2. It is also wrong to give the unsaved the impression that there is any saving virtue in promising to “lead the Christian life.”
3. A person is not saved because he prays. Many people pray who are not saved. In no scripture is salvation conditioned on asking or praying. Faith in the Savior and His finished work on the cross is all that is required.
4. No person is saved by seeking the Lord. In Isaiah 55:6 it is said to Israel “Seek ye the Lord while He may be found,” but in the New Testament we are told to believe only for salvation. It is the Son who came to “seek and save that which is lost”.
5. It is wrong to require repentance for sin as a preliminary act preceding or separate from personal faith in Christ. Repentance is included in believing and can not be separate from it. Repentance and faith are married like husband and wife or Siamese twins. When repentance occurs alone it includes faith. When faith occurs alone it implies repentance. They cannot be separate.
6. No scripture requires confession of sin as a condition of salvation. 1 John 1:8-9 is given to the believer only and is the condition for the restoration of the fellowship that has been lost with God because of sin.
7. No passage states or even implies that a sinner is saved by asking Jesus to come into his heart or life. Frequently Revelation 3:20 is used to support this ides of asking. But the context of the verse show otherwise. The passage is from the letter written to the church of Laodicea. Verses 15-17 the Lord talks about their condition. Verses 18-20 He offers His counsel. Their condition is that they are lukewarm verse 17. To be lukewarm is to be half-hearted Christians. Note very carefully that the subject is not their salvation but works or service. Also, note carefully that the letter is written to believers.

I don’t understand why Protestants are so anti-verb. No one, anywhere said that we believe that it is through our own works that we will get to Heaven. No one here is trying to buy that stairway. We do good works because it’s what God wants us to do. Jesus said we are the light of the world, so we must shine before others that they must see your Good Deeds and glorify your Heavenly Father. What you’re arguing is basically nothing at all has to be done whatsoever for you to get into Heaven, and that’s absolutely false. You said yourself you have to believe. Believing is a WORK!!! Believing is an action that you have to perform so you can get to Heaven. Logically, your position holds no water, because you say that there’s nothing you can do to get into Heaven, but then you say you have to do something. You can’t have it both ways.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

No passage of Scripture teaches that works are needed for salvation. Israel already tried a works oriented salvation the Law and failed. That is why we are saved by grace through and not of works. Eph. 2:8-9.

Um, I believe that the same Holy Spirit who inspired St Paul to write Eph. 2:8-9 also inspired verse 10. Check it out.

Now here is something else that will help you undersand my point. “Salvation is a work of God for man, rather than a work of man for God.” No aspect of salvation is made to depend on human merit or works no matter how slight they may be. The word “gospel,” both noun and verb occurs 132 times in the New Testament. The word “repent,” with its noun and verb occurs only 58 times. But the word “faith,” both noun and verb forms occurs 492 times.

So repentance isn’t necessary for salvation?

Faith assumes knowledge or recognition of some information. Before we can believe or have faith in anything we must know about it.
Romans 10:14 says, “”How shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?” Again, in Acts 18:8; Eph. 1:13; the Bible put hearing before believing. So faith presupposes knowledge.
If faith then presupposes knowledge, what must a person need to know? If one were to look up all the times “believe” and “faith” are used in the New Testament to see what a person must know about Christ, you will find four things:

1. Jesus Christ is God, John 20:31.
2. He is a real man, 1John 4:2.
3. He died for mans sins, Rom. 3:25.
4. He rose from the dead, Rom. 10:9.
   The New Testament declares the last two facts as the gospel and the one believing it will be saved.

This one word “believe” represents all that a sinner must have to be saved. It is believing the record that God has given to us about His Son. God could have chosen any word in any language he wished to express what a person must do to be saved. He chose the Greek word pisteuo, “believe,” and pistis, “faith,” and he used them emphatically. The Gospel of John, the one New Testament book written to get people saved, pisteuo occures ninety-nine times while the word metauoeo, repent does not occur at all.
Also, in Romans, Paul’s most extensive work on salvation, he used only one word faith. The 4th chapter of Romans is given to the subject. There are other words used for what a sinner must do to be saved. “Look,” “come,” “call,” and others are employed, but these are used as synonyms for faith.

The Scriptures also say that while believing is good, the demons also believe. There must be a little more to it, or else the demons who believe are also saved.

If a person does not understand what it is to believe then they are not ready to be saved. In Matt. 13:13-16 Jesus taught that if people did not understand they could not be saved.

So babies, toddlers, and the mentally retarded cannot be saved because they cannot understand the Gospel?
(to be continued)

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Many presentations of the gospel are thus misstated in various in subtle ways. Here is a list of just a few:

1. It is a most serious error to add any kind of human works as a requirement to be saved (Eph. 2:8-10).

It’s a serious error to not allow God to work through us if we belong to Him.

1. It is also wrong to give the unsaved the impression that there is any saving virtue in promising to “lead the Christian life.”

Matthew 10:38 “and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.”

1. A person is not saved because he prays. Many people pray who are not saved. In no scripture is salvation conditioned on asking or praying. Faith in the Savior and His finished work on the cross is all that is required.

Only if you ignore a lot of the rest of Scripture.

1. No person is saved by seeking the Lord. In Isaiah 55:6 it is said to Israel “Seek ye the Lord while He may be found,” but in the New Testament we are told to believe only for salvation. It is the Son who came to “seek and save that which is lost”.

Matthew 16:24 “Then Jesus said to his disciples, ‘If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.’”

1. It is wrong to require repentance for sin as a preliminary act preceding or separate from personal faith in Christ. Repentance is included in believing and can not be separate from it. Repentance and faith are married like husband and wife or Siamese twins. When repentance occurs alone it includes faith. When faith occurs alone it implies repentance. They cannot be separate.

Acts 2:36-39 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

1. No scripture requires confession of sin as a condition of salvation. 1 John 1:8-9 is given to the believer only and is the condition for the restoration of the fellowship that has been lost with God because of sin.

James 5:14-16 “Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. 16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.”

1. No passage states or even implies that a sinner is saved by asking Jesus to come into his heart or life. Frequently Revelation 3:20 is used to support this ides of asking. But the context of the verse show otherwise. The passage is from the letter written to the church of Laodicea. Verses 15-17 the Lord talks about their condition. Verses 18-20 He offers His counsel. Their condition is that they are lukewarm verse 17. To be lukewarm is to be half-hearted Christians. Note very carefully that the subject is not their salvation but works or service. Also, note carefully that the letter is written to believers.

Oh, their works/service were lukewarm? So works/service are important in the life of a Christian, then?

 

[DLClark]

I don’t understand why Protestants are so anti-verb. No one, anywhere said that we believe that it is through our own works that we will get to Heaven. No one here is trying to buy that stairway. We do good works because it’s what God wants us to do. Jesus said we are the light of the world, so we must shine before others that they must see your Good Deeds and glorify your Heavenly Father. What you’re arguing is basically nothing at all has to be done whatsoever for you to get into Heaven, and that’s absolutely false. You said yourself you have to believe. Believing is a WORK!!! Believing is an action that you have to perform so you can get to Heaven. Logically, your position holds no water, because you say that there’s nothing you can do to get into Heaven, but then you say you have to do something. You can’t have it both ways.

You do say it is through your own efforts, maybe not with initial grace to believe, but you say that salvation is a continuing process and man must cooperate with God in it. You add Holy communion, water baptism and other rituals to faith and claim these are all part of our salvation process. The Bible claims that salvation is a finished event from the cross that man accepts by faith alone in Christ alone. Eph 2:5

 

[Shannon9791]

You do say it is through your own efforts, maybe not with initial grace to believe, but you say that salvation is a continuing process and man must cooperate with God in it. You add Holy communion, water baptism and other rituals to faith and claim these are all part of our salvation process. The Bible claims that salvation is a finished event from the cross that man accepts by faith alone in Christ alone. Eph 2:5

You say it is a continuing process that man must cooperate with God in as well, you just don’t realize you’re saying it. Believing is not a one time thing, is it? It is something you must DO for the rest of your life, right? You can’t get away from that. You said that there’s nothing we can do as humans. But then down the line you say that we have to believe, and above us, Pixie Dust has shown that there are things that need to be done. Eucharist, Baptism, and the other sacraments all come from the Bible.

 

[ppasa316]

The Luke passage does not tell us to venerate Mary. We are to love the Lord our God with all of out heart soul and mind. To venerate May is put her in competition with our love for God. We then have a divided love.

Paul told us “to be absent from the body is to be at home with the Lord.” sounds like Paul did not believe in purgatory.

Anything added to faith alone for salvation is a work and the Bible condemns this idea. A plan of salvation like faith+works=salvation is anathema to the Bible, John 3:16; Eph 2:8-9; Titus 3:5.

Not one place in the Bible does it say to pray to saints. The Bible tells us that Christians today are saints today. Jesus says that we are to pray to The Father in His name. That is how we are to pray.

Paul never thought he would lose his salvation other wise he would never have written Romans 8. We can lose rewards but never, never that which God promises to keep for us, our salvation, John 10:27-29.

We can never merit heaven. Here is a question for you and please share your answer with me please.
Q. Have you done enough good works to merit God justifying you?

Very Well Said. Amen:thumbsup:

 

[ppasa316]

hhmmmm… a good presentation of what you get when you self-interpret the Catholic Book.

Q. Have you done enough good works to merit God justifying you?
A#1: no, because I do not believe that God will justify me on what I do. Therefore I do not believe that the sinner’s prayer(not in Scripture), altar call (no altar), etc are sufficient actions(works) on my part to “make” God justify me.
A#2: no, because faith (saving faith, and any other meaning makes no sense) without works is dead).
A#3: no, because the Catholic Church has never taught the definition of merit that you erroneously imply in the question.
**A#4: ** no, because the implication (and erroneous Protestant teaching) is once saved always saved. St Paul, the Catholic Apostle to the Gentiles, clearly teaches the continuing process of justification.

Additionally, I need to pick up my cross and follow Him daily. Don’t know about you, but I have some trouble being totally faithful to Him every second. I, like all others, will probably die with some attachment (even a small one) to something of this world. And since nothing unclean will enter Heaven… I thank God for His merciful gift of purgation of those attachments.

I also am grateful to belong to the Church of the Saints in Heaven.

.

Didn’t know that Paul was Catholic. Can you provide scripture to your statements.

 

[ppasa316]

Are you suggesting that, say, 1Peter, does not belong in Scripture? Or are you agreeing that the office of the “chief steward” or “prime minister” as described in Isaiah and quoted by the Lord in Matt 16 is one of acting in the absence of the King until He comes again.

Is it Peter who is infallible, or the Office established by Christ?

.

What are you talking about.

 

[ppasa316]

see how much this man ‘loves’ the sinner when one of them steals all his worldly goods… (or worse )…

see if he thinks this person (say this theif was once “born - again”) goes directly to Heaven when he dies… with no purification… no restitution… nothing…

of course, to maintain the argument in his favor without backing down…appearing to have lost it… he would probably say, even enthusiatically, “YEs, yes, he would go to Heaven directly…”

to which i say:

---

OH Pullleeeeeeeeeeeeasssssssssse!!! ***

Matt 27:51 When the veil was torn in two a person no longer had to go to the priest for confession. They now can go straight to the Lord with their sins for forgiveness.

 

[barbara_manix]

Yesssssssss!!! Someone got it-----thank you!!!