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Shannon9791
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How you figure that?
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NDfan
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You’re taking this statement out of context. Demons don’t believe “in” Christ. The demons acknowledge that Jesus is the son of GOD and the Messiah. In that context they knew who Jesus was. But that does not translate into them “believing”. One must accept Christ as their savior which the demons do not.
Interesting point but no where in Matthew 13:13-16 does Jesus teach that one has to understand the Gospel to be saved. Perhaps he was referring to Jesus in verse 18-19 responding to the disciples question of why HE teaches in parables. In explaining the parable of the sower Christ warns of those that do not understand the word of the Kingdom (referring to those seeds that had been sprinkled on the path) get taken away by the evil one. This simply means that they may have heard about the Gospel but never had anyone explain it to them. Babies and toddlers don’t understand the Gospel because they don’t possess the intelligence yet. Some mentally retarded can understand enough depending on their level of functionality. We have a young man with down’s syndrome at our church who has incredible faith. I will not believe for one second that Christ would turn HIS back on those who are defenseless.
PEACE
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barbara_manix
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THE ROCK IS -----JESUS!!!—HE IS THE CORNERSTONE,THE ROCK OF AGES THE BEGINNING AND THE END–OUR STRONG HIGHTOWER!!!
HE and HE ALONE WENT TO THE CROSS—GET IT ,PLEASE!!!
JOHN 3:16!!! and JOHN 1:1 and on!!! READ THE WORD!!! THE PURE WORD OF GOD-----THAT’S THE TRUTH THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH—SO HELP YOU GOD!!!------The 1st and 2nd Commmandments please—HE IS A JEALOUS GOD—THAT’S IN THE BIBLE—LOOK IT UP—DON’T TAKE MY WORD FOR–TAKE HIS(GOD’S) WORD FOR IT—AMEN!!!
HE and HE ALONE WENT TO THE CROSS—GET IT ,PLEASE!!!
JOHN 3:16!!! and JOHN 1:1 and on!!! READ THE WORD!!! THE PURE WORD OF GOD-----THAT’S THE TRUTH THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH—SO HELP YOU GOD!!!------The 1st and 2nd Commmandments please—HE IS A JEALOUS GOD—THAT’S IN THE BIBLE—LOOK IT UP—DON’T TAKE MY WORD FOR–TAKE HIS(GOD’S) WORD FOR IT—AMEN!!!
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Pixie_Dust
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Actually, for the purpose of this discussion it is not out of context. The poster was saying that “belief” is the only thing necessary for salvation. The question is, how much does one need to believe in order to be saved?
Where in Scripture does it say “one must accept Christ as their savior”?
Yeah, that’s kind of what I was getting at with my question.
Neither do I, but it seems our friend, to whom I was directing my question, does place understanding as a requirement for salvation.
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Pixie_Dust
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Please don’t shout. I do read the written Word of God daily, which contains 73 Books.
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Tomster
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Have you ever read the Sermon on the Mount? Really, have you?
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ppasa316
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Works are not the point of Salvation. Faith is. Abraham had faith and was accounted for righteousness before any works. The thief on the cross did not have time to come off the cross to do any good works but it was his faith that got him into paradise.
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Pixie_Dust
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His faith led him to obey God, pack up his tent and move across the country. His faith worked. You’re creating a false dichotomy.
He defended our Lord’s innocence to the other thief, but other than that he wasn’t really in a position to DO anything, what with being nailed to a cross and all that.
Why does everyone use the Penitent Thief as an excuse not to do anything for God?!?! If you were hanging from a cross, struggling for every breath with excruciating pain, and decided to have faith in Christ, I would never insist that you be baptized or go on a mission trip, and I daresay neither would God.
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ppasa316
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You really defended what I was saying all along. It is faith that leads to salvation not works. Works is a by product of our faith in Christ. Why use the thief on the cross, it is very simple. Since he didn’t have a chance to produce any good works does this man not enter heaven. No one every said you are not to produce any worksHis faith led him to obey God, pack up his tent and move across the country. His faith worked. You’re creating a false dichotomy.
He defended our Lord’s innocence to the other thief, but other than that he wasn’t really in a position to DO anything, what with being nailed to a cross and all that.
I think you are missing the point on this thread. My point is that your Faith in Christ lead to Salvation not by your works.
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ppasa316
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Amen Brother,Sister in Christ. you are making very good points using scripture. Many defended their faith by what they hear or taught by the Church or by a Priest. They cannot defend what they are saying using Gods precious Word. The very Book that we are to follow in our Christian lives. When they do use it they take one verse and twist it to defend what they want it to mean. The very thing that the Lord says not to do. Keep on fighting the Good Fight of Faith.
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Tomster
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Actually, ppasa, the early Protestants acknowledged the inspiration of the Bible, but did not properly understand its nature. The Bible was taken to be, by the early Protestants, as the sole rule of faith, to posses supreme authority and to enjoy unrivalled pre-eminence, and inspiration and revelation were held to be one and the same thing. External proofs or criteria for the existence of inspired books of the Bible were rejected and only internal criteria based upon one’s personal experiences, religious feelings or sociological spiritual effects were substituted. This can be readily verified in the writings of and man made oral traditions of your spiritual fathers, i.e. Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, Beza. Since the Bible became regarded as having been dictated by the Holy Spirit, its human element became gradually neglected, and finally totally denied.
I question your epistemology. In other words, how do you know what you know? Are you sure that it is not just some warm fuzzy feeling?
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Tomster
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With the advent of Protestantism and its simultaneous rejection of the teaching authority of the Church, various internal insufficient criteria were set up to decide the inspiration of a book. These were based on the book itself, the reader of the book, the writer of the book, and the Author of the book.
Luther declared he could tell inspired from non-inspired books just as he could tell good food from bad food. Such criterion is purely subjective. The bitter controversies among the early Reformers about the extension of the Canon and the inspired content of some books are sufficient refutation of this theory. Besides, the Protestant Bible is defective by virtue of the fact that the Reformers chose to accept the Pharisaical O.T. (Our Lord forcefully warned us about them) instead of the Alexandrian O.T. which had already been accepted by Judaism (and then rejected by the Pharisees) and then declared canonical by the Catholic Church. Be mindful that the Reformers did this some thirteen hundred years after the Church had already canonized the true Bible.
The only objective, infallible, and universal criterion of inspiration is Catholic Tradition. In reality, all Protestants should cease from trying to interpret Sacred Scripture. Just take a look in your local phone book and you will see how many competing sects are trying to give their definitive spin on the Word with none of them getting it correct. That alone should convince you.
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DLClark
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Wrong. The Bible says that salvation is a done deal and that we do not have cooperate with God in it to be saved. God has done it all for us. Read eph 2:1-10. After salvation we put our faith into practice but not remain saved or even keep our salvation but in oder to receive rewards.
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jam070406
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What if we don’t put our faith into practice and develop a pattern of sin that turns into grave sin? Like developing a bad alcohol or drug habit? What if that person persisted in this behavior, unrepentant, until death?Wrong. The Bible says that salvation is a done deal and that we do not have cooperate with God in it to be saved. God has done it all for us. Read eph 2:1-10. After salvation we put our faith into practice but not remain saved or even keep our salvation but in oder to receive rewards.
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Tomster
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So you are an OSAS proponent. Well, that it one of the easiest heresies to refute and it has been many times on these threads.Wrong. The Bible says that salvation is a done deal and that we do not have cooperate with God in it to be saved. God has done it all for us. Read eph 2:1-10. After salvation we put our faith into practice but not remain saved or even keep our salvation but in oder to receive rewards.
Suffice it to say at this time, one most definitely CAN lose their salvation.
I think you may be having some difficulty distinguishing between redemption and salvation.
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RonaldH
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MacArther speaks from a perspective of one who believes that the beginning of a relationship with God is by being born again through personal faith in Jesus Christ alone as their Savior. Catholicism teaches a person is born again when they are baptised. Typicically this is while one is an infant and almost universally so when the parents are both Catholic. The real question then is which is true? If the new birth, in fact and truth does not occur when an infant (or an adult for that matter) is baptised, ***then *** there is cause to reason the statement of MacArther out. Without the new birth and subsequent indwelling of the Holy Spirit how does anyone know the truth and isn’t one yet blind and dumb not hearing and understanding God’s Holy Word? It is the Spirit that guides one into Truth and what more nature issue than that of doctrine and belief. Solo Scriptura has been and will forever be the crux of the matter for Non-Catholic Christians when they have a difference with a Catholic friend.
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jam070406
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I’m not sure why anyone would trust Mac when there is so much testimony from the early Church on these issues. Why wouldn’t you trust those that were much closer to the age of the Apostles rather then someone that, in his pride, needs to reinvent the wheel? The Faith is something that has been handed down, not newly discovered when someone like Mac picks up a bible and thinks they have everything figured out and is capable of teaching others his brand of “truth”.
- Both in the East and in the West the practice of baptizing infants is considered a rule of immemorial tradition. Origen, and later St. Augustine, considered it a “tradition received from the Apostles.”[2] When the first direct evidence of infant Baptism appears in the second century, it is never presented as an innovation. St. Irenaeus, in particular, considers it a matter of course that the baptized should include “infants and small children” as well as adolescents, young adults and older people.[3] The oldest known ritual, describing at the start of the third century the Apostolic Tradition, contains the following rule: “First baptize the children. Those of them who can speak for themselves should do so. The parents or someone of their family should speak for the others.”[4] At a Synod of African Bishops, St. Cyprian stated that “God’s mercy and grace should not be refused to anyone born,” and the Synod, recalling that “all human beings” are “equal,” whatever be “their size or age,” declared it lawful to baptize children “by the second or third day after their birth.”[5]
- Admittedly there was a certain decline in the practice of infant Baptism during the fourth century. At that time even adults postponed their Christian initiation out of apprehension about future sins and fear of public penance, and many parents put off the Baptism of their children for the same reasons. But it must also be noted that Fathers and Doctors such as Basil, Gregory of Nyssa, Ambrose, John Chrysostom, Jerome and Augustine, who were themselves baptized as adults on account of this state of affairs, vigorously reacted against such negligence and begged adults not to postpone Baptism since it is necessary for salvation.[6] Several of them insisted that Baptism should be administered to infants.[7]
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Tomster
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If only our non-Catholic Christian brethren could understand that the theory of Sola Scriptura is not contained in the Bible - anywhere!
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jam070406
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Yes, the bible states that the foundation and bulwark of Truth is the Church, no?
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Shannon9791
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And, pray tell, how do you put your faith in action? Uhhhh, is it by doing WORKS? So what would happen if you didn’t put your faith in action?Wrong. The Bible says that salvation is a done deal and that we do not have cooperate with God in it to be saved. God has done it all for us. Read eph 2:1-10. After salvation we put our faith into practice but not remain saved or even keep our salvation but in oder to receive rewards.
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