John MacArthur's ironic comment of the day

[Tomster]

Correct; what Paul is saying is, the OT scriptures are able to give one the wisdom needed to be led to salvation through faith in Christ.

You’re not answering my question: where does Peter say the ”bible is hard to understand?”

Yes. You should understand the doctrine as its adherents define it, and that definition includes the role of the church, and god-sent teachers, and their writings and teachings; Mkay?

So, Catholics are to understand Sola Scriptura, the Bible Alone, as the Bible Alone WITH authoritative teachings coming from Protestant pastors and use of Protestant commentaries? WOW! Just change the word Protestant to Catholic in the above sentence and you have Catholicism. My question to you would then be why so many contradictions within Protestantism regarding doctrines, faith and morals. Can no one body or person speak for Protestantism. You see where I’m going with this don’t you? No matter how many Pastors you listen to, no matter how many commentaries you read, it’s still a tower of Babel. Please tell me, also, where in the Bible did your 'god-sent" teachers get the authority to define anything. Protestantism is only five hundred or so years old.

As far as the quote from St. Peter, you will have to search the Scriptures.

 

[MrS]

I. I do not believe in a New Testement priesthood other than the “priesthood of believers”, I Peter 2:9. .

Of course. Neither did my Baptist son until he read Numbers and Jude.

Then his question was “Why would the words in Jude warn those members of the early Church from doing what they were doing for they would then incur the wrath of Korah… unless they were doing what those in Numbers were doing to be slaughtered”?

He got it.

“they” were usurping the responsibilities of the ministerial priesthood.

You see, most would never understand that unless they had a competent outside authoritative teaching body to explain this.

Outside the Catholic Church the main missing ingredient is Authority.

Competent Christians…?? sure
Teaching with Authority…?? only their own, and not of God.
Getting it right…?? sure, sometimes.
Getting it wrong…?? everytime they are contrary to the Church founded by Jesus.

.

 

[MrS]

Thank you for your kind words,

The difference in Catholic doctrine is that Catholic doctrine says the words were literal but that is not the case, they were spiritual.

You are welcome.

Your interpretation however is at odd… direct odds… with St Paul’s admonition in Corinthians.

So either:

Jesus was wrong,

Paul was wrong,

or You have been taught wrong.

hhmmmm

.

 

[MrS]

I
I play golf weekly with a catholic priest, I never call him “Father”, it is against my conscience, does that offend you? It is not meant to, but the point is we must act accordingly. .

Well maybe the priest only takes you along on Sunday mornings in case he has a hole in one. If he did that, and then thought he would be criticized for golfing on Sunday morning, he couldn’t tell any one what he had done lest they think he should have still been saying Mass.

With you he has a witness:thumbsup:

also, on the lighter side…
Has he ever said that he has a cart, a set of clubs, and a set of rules to play by?
and perhaps you should play sola balla, after all that is what it is all about… just getting the ball in the hole.

.

 

[Howie01]

As far as the quote from St. Peter, you will have to search the Scriptures.

ISTM you either don’t want to answer my question to you: where does Peter say the "bible is hard to understand?"

Or, you’re unable to answer my question.

Which is it?

 

[MrS]

ISTM you either don’t want to answer my question to you: where does Peter say the "bible is hard to understand?"

Or, you’re unable to answer my question.

Which is it?

Perhaps because it was Paul… they did hang out together, … being fellow Catholics and all.

I would like to believe that you do actually know that Scripture itself does teach that Scripture is “hard” to understand… which is why so many denominations and faith communities are at odds with the Catholic Church and each other… they don’t have an authoritative teaching body to guide them.

Their preference is for Luther, Calvin, and the Reformers of old, or J White, Olson, Graham, and MacArthur… the more current “reformers”.

.
.

 

[Howie01]

Perhaps because it was Paul… they did hang out together, … being fellow Catholics and all.

Tomster says it was Peter, and you say it was Paul.

Where did Paul say the "bible is hard to understand?"

 

[RonaldH]

You are welcome.

Your interpretation however is at odd… direct odds… with St Paul’s admonition in Corinthians.

So either:

Jesus was wrong,

Paul was wrong,

or You have been taught wrong.

hhmmmm

.

I answered your question and even explained it, your reply is to tell me this? It honestly doesn’t make sense. I have told you a viewpoint that is contrary to yours and you equate that to me saying that Jesus was wrong? Why? how? Paul was wrong? Where and why? Please tell me without using outside sources. I want to know from yourself why you say in my interpretation I am wrong.

P.S. how does one interpose within someone else’s quote? which of the above Icon’s do I use so I can address issues individually? Do I use the “Quotes” icon?

 

[MrS]

Tomster says it was Peter, and you say it was Paul.

Where did Paul say the "bible is hard to understand?"

or maybe it was Peter talking about Paul.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Tomster says it was Peter, and you say it was Paul.

Where did Paul say the "bible is hard to understand?"

Actually, Peter says it in reference to Paul’s letters. So, it can be found in one of Peter’s epistles. Neither are very long, so you should be able to locate it quickly. Study to show thyself approved…

 

[MrS]

Okay, I think you either don’t want to look it up, or you think it may not be there.

so without further I do…

2Peter 3:

14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Our separated brethren for the most part are actually untaught.

I am CERTAIN that Peter was not saying that there are more teachers with any authority outside the Church. Because:

• There was only one Church.
• There still is only one Church.
• There is only one teaching authority.
• There still is only one teaching authority

The destruction Peter refers to is evident in the thousands of man/woman made faith communities.

/

.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. 2 Pete 3:16

God bless

 

[Howie01]

Pixie Dust:

Actually, Peter says it in reference to Paul’s letters.

He says that about Paul’s epistles, but that’s not what Tomster said.

 

[Protestant101]

So you’re a follower of Dave Hunt’s propaganda, great!!!

You are a follower of the Pope’s propaganda - great!

 

[Protestant101]

Our separated brethren for the most part are actually untaught.

We are not “separated brethren.” We did not go anywhere; it is Catholics who went somewhere and separated from us. Some Protestants seek to RESTORE not add truth to the Church as Catholics have done for 200 years or so as they “learned” new “truth.”

 

[Howie01]

MrS:

Okay, I think you either don’t want to look it up, or you think it may not be there.

so without further I do…

It’s not there, MrS. Peter nowhere makes the statement that the bible is hard to understand; does he?

Paul certainly says that the OT is able to give wisdom to one that leads to the knowledge of salvation through faith in Christ.

That’s not hard to understand; is it?

In fact John states in his Gospel and first epistle, the reason for his writing them is so the reader may know he has eternal life.

So, ISTM, what you’re being taught contradicts what the apostles teach with respect to the writings.
Mr S:

2Peter 3:

14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Our separated brethren for the most part are actually untaught.

On what basis are they untaught, IYO?

MrS:

I am CERTAIN that Peter was not saying that there are more teachers with any authority outside the Church.

Correct. What Peter said had to do only with the difficulty of some of what Paul wrote; namely, “these things.”

In context, “these things” are eschatological, and only “some of them” are hard to understand.

Not “all of them.”

Neither does Peter say, “they’re impossible to understand.”

Methinks you’re “twisting” what Peter says; therefore, you’re unstable, and untaught, ISTM.

 

[Protestant101]

The quote you gives says scripture (referring to the OT, b/c the NT was not yet compiled and the writer had no idea that what he was saying would be held in canon) is profitable not sufficient. What are you thoughts on taking things away from scripture, like Luther did? I also have a very close friend who is a priest, and I don’t call him Father. I would hope that you would call him that, as it is his title, if you were referring to him in a more formal setting. A little off topic, but what’s your handicap?

Luther did nothing of the sort. Luther tried to restore truths being lost to superstitious pagan beliefs and practices. Luther actually set some very good Christian examples for us today who should learn from him rather than to vilify him.

 

[josie_L]

You are a follower of the Pope’s propaganda - great!

Which Pope would that be of the 266 popes that we’ve had in an unbroken succession since Christ?

 

[fishisgood]

We are not “separated brethren.” We did not go anywhere; it is Catholics who went somewhere and separated from us. Some Protestants seek to RESTORE not add truth to the Church as Catholics have done for 200 years or so as they “learned” new “truth.”

Do you not belong to a church founded in the 1860’s based on a prophecy that never came to fruision… it seems clear to me that you follow a made up theology that we have been warned about in the Bible… im not very smart or some sort of apologist but you pointing out theological errors in Catholicism sighting that you are bible only while belonging to a Church founded on bad judgement at best seems rather ironic.

 

[guanophore]

ISTM you either don’t want to answer my question to you: where does Peter say the "bible is hard to understand?"

Or, you’re unable to answer my question.

Which is it?

He wants you to practice what you preach, and search the Scriptures!

2 Peter 3:15-17
So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures."

The fact is that God has appointed an authorized teacher so that this will not happen. He did not intend for us to be awash on a sea of self centered interpretation.