John MacArthur's ironic comment of the day

[guanophore]

My take this was probably hyped up by reformers who went printing press happy in exposing any kind of “corruption” they could find. I think I’m going to read more research on this, but this might be yet another lie told by these people.

Throughout the history of the church, there have always been corrupt clergy. There were certainly plenty of them in Europe, even before the Reformation. Yes, there were many other factors involved, but one important factor was that people yearning for spiritual purity recognized that purity is found in the Scriptures that was not found in the local clergy.

 

[benedictus2]

I said it, and I try to say it every time I see the claim made. Scripture cannot be infallible because infallibility requires the ability to act. It is a quality that belongs to persons, not writings, however Holy they may be. Infallible means that a mistake cannot be made by taking action, or failing to take it. It requires discernment and volition, qualities not belonging to the Holy Writings. This is why it was such a serious mistake to try to replace the authority appointed by Christ in the Church with the writings. It is trying to force the Holy Scripture into a role that was not intended for it.

Scripture cannot the the final “rule” in the sense of governance because scripture does not have the ability to take responsibility or be held accountable for decisions. What happens is that people end up doing these things themselves, believing that Scripture is acting infallibly. What they have done is become their own magesterium.

My goodness but you’re good!!! Very good! :clapping:

 

[Tomster]

Just being like a Berean brotha. Did they not search the scriptures after Paul taught. I don’t want my own interpretation. I want to make sure I am sharing the Word of God correctly. It would do others well to do the same. There is nothing wrong with going to other references. I also use Warren Wiersbe and the teaching of my Pastor. But you are right the Word of God is infallible. That is all we need to live the Christian life. You might check the teachings of Chuck Smith, David Rosales and Raul Ries to help you better understand the Word of God. They are awesome Calvary Chapel Pastors. If you need help just let me know. God Bless

More conflicting Protestant oral tradition? No thanks. I have the infallible teaching magisterium of the Catholic Church to rely on.

 

[Tomster]

So, if I read this right…

First you say, be like a Berean… they would HEAR what was being taught by the early Church leaders, and simply check (the OT) to see if what they heard was in conflict… not if it was actually there… but whether it was in conflict.

Then you say, check the non-Scriptural or non-authoritative teachings of pastors who are NOT in the early Church or in the same Church that continues today.

hhmmmm…

IMHO, you have chosen to listen to or check with sources that are nowhere near as credible as the sources which the Bereans checked.

Catholics have that. But they also have the actual writers of the NT, or those they taught, or those who they taught etc etc etc.

History of the Catholic Church is a wonderful thing, huh.?

.

Yes it is my brother. Yes it is !

 

[Tomster]

There is a critical difference between you and the Bereans:

Acts 17:10-11
11 Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessaloni’ca,** for they received the word with all eagerness**, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so.

You do not receive the word with joy from those ordained by the Apostles. You think you are “noble” because you search the Scriptures, when Jesus entrusted Himself to His Apostles. They are those who are authorized to teach, preach, and baptize. The scriptures testify to this, and all that Paul taught is found in Scripture. However, those that approach scripture with the mindset of opposing the Catholic Church do not do so with Berean nobility.

No, the Scripture is not “infallible”. This is a quality that only belongs to persons. It requires characteristics that Scripture does not have.

No, thanks, ppasa, we need no help in finding those who have abandoned the Apostolic Succession. We are surrounded by them! If Scripture was all we needed to live the Christian life, then we would not need to “check the teachings…to help better understand the Word”. Your own words demonstrate that what you have stated is false.

Eph 4:10-14
11 And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, 12** to equip the saints **for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ;

If Scripture were all that was needed, God would not have given these gifts to the church. The duty of teaching, correcting, and reproving belongs to those who are ordained and gifted for this task. Scripture is useful in these duties.

2 Tim 3:15-4:1
16 All scripture is inspired by God and **profitable **for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Who is responsible for equipping the saints?

Thank you very much !

 

[ppasa316]

There is a critical difference between you and the Bereans:

Acts 17:10-11
11 Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessaloni’ca,** for they received the word with all eagerness**, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so.

You do not receive the word with joy from those ordained by the Apostles. You think you are “noble” because you search the Scriptures, when Jesus entrusted Himself to His Apostles. They are those who are authorized to teach, preach, and baptize. The scriptures testify to this, and all that Paul taught is found in Scripture. However, those that approach scripture with the mindset of opposing the Catholic Church do not do so with Berean nobility.

No, the Scripture is not “infallible”. This is a quality that only belongs to persons. It requires characteristics that Scripture does not have.

No, thanks, ppasa, we need no help in finding those who have abandoned the Apostolic Succession. We are surrounded by them! If Scripture was all we needed to live the Christian life, then we would not need to “check the teachings…to help better understand the Word”. Your own words demonstrate that what you have stated is false.

Eph 4:10-14
11 And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, 12** to equip the saints **for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ;

If Scripture were all that was needed, God would not have given these gifts to the church. The duty of teaching, correcting, and reproving belongs to those who are ordained and gifted for this task. Scripture is useful in these duties.

2 Tim 3:15-4:1
16 All scripture is inspired by God and **profitable **for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Who is responsible for equipping the saints?

All I need is the Word of God to continue in my walk in my Christian life. I don’t need a council or anything to tell me . you are so far off that it is not funny. you twist the scriptures and have others see what you are saying. It amazing that you dont take the word of God more seriously. Please study to show your self approved for there should not be many teachers as they are held into a higher accountability.

 

[MrS]

All I need is the Word of God to continue in my walk in my Christian life. I don’t need a council or anything to tell me . you are so far off that it is not funny. you twist the scriptures and have others see what you are saying. It amazing that you dont take the word of God more seriously. Please study to show your self approved for there should not be many teachers as they are held into a higher accountability.

Are you saying…

1] All you need is the Scriptures… the book of the Catholic Church?

2] You don’t need to hear what they really are meant to say to you… just what you think they might say at a particular time, from a particular pastor with no Apostolic authority, for a particular circumstance

3] Do you think the Church which is the ONLY source of those writings would first give the letters to the world, and then let upstarts and usurpers claim a better understanding?

not hardly.

You my friend need more history lessons, Scripture studies, and Visine.

.

 

[phoenix3212]

All I need is the Word of God to continue in my walk in my Christian life. I don’t need a council or anything to tell me . you are so far off that it is not funny. you twist the scriptures and have others see what you are saying. It amazing that you dont take the word of God more seriously. Please study to show your self approved for there should not be many teachers as they are held into a higher accountability.

It was a series of councils and synods that proclaimed the canon of scripture. How can you claim that the Bible, but not councils, are necessary, when church councils themselves decided what went in the Bible? The canon wasn’t defined until the late fourth century, you know. That means, for 400 years, there was no Bible. Instead, Christians relied on something that also comes from God and is therefore authoritative–Sacred Tradition.

The highest respect for the Bible is found in the Catholic Church. We respect it so much we can agree on one interpretation of it, instead of holding a plethora of views like modern Protestants.

 

[benedictus2]

I said it, and I try to say it every time I see the claim made. Scripture cannot be infallible because infallibility requires the ability to act. It is a quality that belongs to persons, not writings, however Holy they may be. Infallible means that a mistake cannot be made by taking action, or failing to take it.

Was thinking about this last night and have come to the conclusion that we need to be precise with teriminoloygy or else we go around in circles.

So ppsa and P101, the Bible is INERRANT, The Caholic Church is INFALLIBLE.

 

[benedictus2]

All I need is the Word of God to continue in my walk in my Christian life.

Point 1: What do you mean by the Word of God? If you mean the Bible as we know it today then it stands to reason that the early Christians were not walking in the light because they did not have the New Testament. Poor lost souls:crying:.

Point 2: If Scripture is all that is needed then you are saying that Christ did not know what really matters since instead of writing a book He established a Church. What in the world was He thinking?!

I don’t need a council or anything to tell me .

Point 3 - Without the councils you would not know what constitutes the Bible .

you are so far off that it is not funny.

Point 4. We are so close you are the one that is funny because you do not know that which you speak of.

you twist the scriptures and have others see what you are saying.

Point 5: But petal, I have SHOWN that it is you who twist scripture by the simple fact that you will not even put the text right here on the board so we can compare exegesis. You have cited Bible verses which when read, no way proves your point. Yet you keep saying it is us who twist scriptures. When asked to give support for this claim (that we twist scripture) you lose your tongue (or should I say your typing ability )

It amazing that you dont take the word of God more seriously.

Point 6: As I have shown above, what is amazing is that you claim to take the Word of God seriously yet you do not understand it at all. Hmmm, perhaps if you continue reading it (I mean all of it not just those that you extract and squeeze to support SS) then you will know the Word of God a little bit better.

Please study to show your self approved

Point 7: A good advise that you should take seriously. It is not good to strutt around claiming to know theWord of God just for your ignorance of it to be on the spotlight.

for there should not be many teachers as they are held into a higher accountability.

Point 8: Hallelujah! Finally we agree. There should only be one teacher and there is: The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church:bowdown2:

 

[benedictus2]

But you are right the Word of God is infallible. That is all we need to live the Christian life. You might check the teachings of Chuck Smith, David Rosales and Raul Ries to help you better understand the Word of God. They are awesome Calvary Chapel Pastors. If you need help just let me know. God Bless

Nope. Guanophore is right. The Bible is not infallible. The Bible is INERRANT. It is the Catholic Church that is INFALLIBLE.

 

[Protestant101]

Nope. Guanophore is right. The Bible is not infallible. The Bible is INERRANT. It is the Catholic Church that is INFALLIBLE.

No; Guanophore is dead-wrong. The Bible is infallible. There is no rule of grammar or English which says that to be “infallible” the infallible object has to have a personality; and there is nothing in the Bible to support his heretical statement

INFALLIBLE: From The Word Web Dictionary:

1/ “an infallible antidote”;
2/ “an infallible memory”;
3/ “the Catholic Church considers the Pope infallible”;
4/ “no doctor is infallible”

The first definition, “infallible antidote” is something which does not have a personality/will of any kind. Guanophore has repeated his private interpretation mantra about this many times; but if you take the time to sift through his fire and brimstone; it is painfully obvious how patently false his assertions re Bible infallibility are. If it’s God’s Word, then there is no way it could actually be fallible. What kind of lies is he going to spread about God next is my first question.

 

[ppasa316]

No; Guanophore is dead-wrong. The Bible is infallible. There is no rule of grammar or English which says that to be “infallible” the infallible object has to have a personality; and there is nothing in the Bible to support his heretical statement

INFALLIBLE: From The Word Web Dictionary:

1/ “an infallible antidote”;
2/ “an infallible memory”;
3/ “the Catholic Church considers the Pope infallible”;
4/ “no doctor is infallible”

The first definition, “infallible antidote” is something which does not have a personality/will of any kind. Guanophore has repeated his private interpretation mantra about this many times; but if you take the time to sift through his fire and brimstone; it is painfully obvious how patently false his assertions re Bible infallibility are. If it’s God’s Word, then there is no way it could actually be fallible. What kind of lies is he going to spread about God next is my first question.

Thank you my friend. Its a shame that so many people still have a veil covering their eyes to the Word of God. Rom 10:17 says that faith comes by hearing, and hearing comes by the Word of God. Faith doesn’t come from the church or the pope, priest or anyone from the catholic church. It plainly states that it comes from the Word of God. This morning I will go to my church, hear the Word of God, not some priest who talks more about other things that the Word. I will also open my bible where my pastor will teach and give us plenty of scriptures to enforce His teaching and I will leave very blessed. I pray that all will have a blessed day.

 

[benedictus2]

No; Guanophore is dead-wrong. The Bible is infallible. There is no rule of grammar or English which says that to be “infallible” the infallible object has to have a personality; and there is nothing in the Bible to support his heretical statement

INFALLIBLE: From The Word Web Dictionary:

1/ “an infallible antidote”;
2/ “an infallible memory”;
3/ “the Catholic Church considers the Pope infallible”;
4/ “no doctor is infallible”

The first definition, “infallible antidote” is something which does not have a personality/will of any kind. Guanophore has repeated his private interpretation mantra about this many times; but if you take the time to sift through his fire and brimstone; it is painfully obvious how patently false his assertions re Bible infallibility are. If it’s God’s Word, then there is no way it could actually be fallible. What kind of lies is he going to spread about God next is my first question.

You gave examples of infallibility but not definition. So here is a definition.

Infallible A adjective: incapable of failure or error.

The definition speaks of a capabality. Capabilities are not attributes of inanimate objects. The Bible being a book cannot be said to be either capable or incapable.

So therefore if what you want to convey is that there is no error in the Bible the word is Inerrant, ie.e. free from error

 

[ppasa316]

Nope. Guanophore is right. The Bible is not infallible. The Bible is INERRANT. It is the Catholic Church that is INFALLIBLE.

If the bible is not the infallible Word of God, then why read and study it. It is either all true and infallible or not. There is no error in His word. What you are saying is that the Word of God given by the Holy Spirit contains error.

 

[benedictus2]

Thank you my friend. Its a shame that so many people still have a veil covering their eyes to the Word of God. Rom 10:17 says that faith comes by hearing, and hearing comes by the Word of God.

Unless the Word of God is proclaimed verbally to you by a person you will not “HEAR” it.

If you are just reading the word of God, technically you are no “hearing” it as there is no auditory stimulus.

Faith doesn’t come from the church or the pope, priest or anyone from the catholic church.

Did we say that faith comes from the Catholic Church? Faith comes from God period. The Bible came from the Catholic Church.

It plainly states that it comes from the Word of God. This morning I will go to my church, hear the Word of God, not some priest who talks more about other things that the Word.

When you come back, can you share with us what texts of the Bible was read. I would be very interested to know that. Thank you.

I will also open my bible where my pastor will teach and give us plenty of scriptures to enforce His teaching and I will leave very blessed. I pray that all will have a blessed day.

Yes, please share with us what scripture readings will be discussed.

 

[ppasa316]

You gave examples of infallibility but not definition. So here is a definition.

Infallible A adjective: incapable of failure or error.

The definition speaks of a capabality. Capabilities are not attributes of inanimate objects. The Bible being a book cannot be said to be either capable or incapable.

So therefore if what you want to convey is that there is no error in the Bible the word is Inerrant, ie.e. free from error

look up the definition of infallible

 

[benedictus2]

If the bible is not the infallible Word of God, then why read and study it.

Because it is the INERRANT word of God.

It is either all true and infallible or not. There is no error in His word. What you are saying is that the Word of God given by the Holy Spirit contains error.

Okay, I asked you before if you can read. Did you even get the distinction between inerrant and infallible?

 

[benedictus2]

**benedictus2:
You gave examples of infallibility but not definition. So here is a definition.

Infallible A adjective: incapable of failure or error.

*****The definition speaks of a capabality. Capabilities are not attributes of inanimate objects. The Bible being a book cannot be said to be either capable or incapable. *****

***So therefore if what you want to convey is that there is no error in the Bible the word is ***Inerrant, ie.e. free from error

look up the definition of infallible

Now I will really have to say you CAN’T read.

Hellloooo, I gave the definition in the post you replied to (the text I have highlighted).

 

[guanophore]

All I need is the Word of God to continue in my walk in my Christian life. I don’t need a council or anything to tell me .

If it were not for the councils, you would not have a Bible.

If all you need is your Bible, why are you on CAF? Why did you tell us that you consult commentaries?

Do you attend a church, and if so, why, since you don’t need that either?

you are so far off that it is not funny. you twist the scriptures and have others see what you are saying. It amazing that you dont take the word of God more seriously. Please study to show your self approved for there should not be many teachers as they are held into a higher accountability.

Thank you ppasa. This is good advice. I will study hard to make sure that I don’t fall into error.