John on the Trinity

[Gil_M]

Jn. 14:12-13, who can do greater works than Jesus? Who is it being referred to?
Also Jn. 14: 30-31, who is the ruler of the world who has no power over Jesus?
I have been told that these are the mystery of the Blessed Trinity, and that John is talking about the Holy Spirit.
That is a mystery to me. I thought the Trinity was One God, neither having any rule or power over the other. Where one is all three are. You can’t have one without the other?
Certainly, Jesus would have been subordinate because he was a man as well as the Divine Son, hence the many references Jesus makes re. His obedience/subordination to the Father. So what am I not understanding about the Trinity?

 

[NotWorthy]

Jn. 14:12-13, who can do greater works than Jesus? Who is it being referred to?

Why, you and I can and are being referred to here. Here’s was Navarre says:

12-14. Before leaving this world, the Lord promises His Apostles to make them
sharers in His power so that God’s salvation may be manifested through them.
These “works” are the miracles they will work in the name of Jesus Christ (cf.
Acts 3:1-10; 5:15-16; etc.), and especially the conversion of people to the
Christian faith and their sanctification by preaching and the ministry of the sa-
craments. They can be considered greater works than Jesus’ own insofar as,
by the Apostles’ ministry, the Gospel was not only preached in Palestine but
was spread to the ends of the earth; but this extraordinary power of apostolic
preaching proceeds from Christ, who has ascended to the Father: after under-
going the humiliation of the cross Jesus has been glorified and from Heaven
He manifests His power by acting through His Apostles.

The Apostles’ power, therefore, derives from Christ glorified. Christ our Lord
says as much: “Whatever you ask in My name, I will do it”. “It is not that he
who believes in Me will be greater than Me, but that only that I shall then do
greater works than now; greater, by him who believes in Me, than I now do by
myself without Him” (St. Augustine, “In Ioann. Evang.”, 72, 1).

Also Jn. 14: 30-31, who is the ruler of the world who has no power over Jesus?

I thought this was Satan.

1. Clearly the world is good, for it has been created by God, and God loved it so
   much that He sent His Only-begotten Son (cf. John 3:16). However, in this passage
   “world” means all those who reject Christ; and “the ruler of the world” is the devil
   (cf. John 1:10; 7:7; 15:18-19). The devil opposed the work of Jesus right from the
   start of His public life when he tempted Him in the desert (cf. Matthew 4:1-11 and
   paragraph). Now, in the passion, he will apparently overcome Christ. This is the hour of the power of darkness when, availing of Judas’ treachery (cf. Luke 22:53;
   John 13:27), the devil manages to have our Lord arrested and crucified./quote]

I have been told that these are the mystery of the Blessed Trinity, and that John is talking about the Holy Spirit.

That is a mystery to me. I thought the Trinity was One God, neither having any rule or power over the other. Where one is all three are. You can’t have one without the other?
Certainly, Jesus would have been subordinate because he was a man as well as the Divine Son, hence the many references Jesus makes re. His obedience/subordination to the Father. So what am I not understanding about the Trinity?

 

[Gil_M]

Got it!
I understand Jn 14: 30-31, thank you. Gives one allot to reflect on too.
I understand what you are saying about doing works greater than Jesus, but I think He has given us a pretty high bar! Freeing all our souls from the death our sin justifiably deserves? Jesus is the only “new Adam”, the only acceptable atonement for sin. Not me, in fact I’m hooking my star to His.
I could better understand if you say that we are to accomplish greater works than some of Jesus’ works, given that we will be given the help we need where and when we need it. Am I tripping myself up on semantics here or over thinking it?
I know the Apostles were given extraordinary charisms to carry on what Jesus started, but we pale in comparison.
Why would we be tasked to accomplish an unattainable goal?

“It is not that he
who believes in Me will be greater than Me, but that only that I shall then do
greater works than now; greater, by him who believes in Me, than I now do by
myself without Him” (St. Augustine, “In Ioann. Evang.”, 72, 1).

This is a great quote!
I think my answer is in there somewhere.