John Paul II and Ordination of Women

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In Pope John Paul II’s letter on the ordination of women, seen here: catholic.com/tracts/women-and-the-priesthood, he outlines that the reason women cannot be ordained is because Jesus selected men only and the Church has no authority to reverse this decision. He never once appeals to the sections of the New Testament, namely Timothy and Corinthians, which seem to make a more forceful argument in his favor.

My question is, why would he do that? Why would he appeal to logic which is much easier to dismiss than the scriptures? After all, Jesus didn’t choose ANY non-Jews to be apostles in His Church, so such an argument is really not that strong.

Any thoughts on why the Pope left out Paul’s writings?
 
he outlines that the reason women cannot be ordained is because Jesus selected men only and the Church has no authority to reverse this decision.
No, that’s not the reason. You can get a more complete picture if you read the entire text of Ordinato Sacerdoltalis (it’s not long) instead of an excerpt quoted in a tract.

The reason is because this teaching properly belongs to the Deposit of Faith because it is part of Sacred Tradition. Of course, it is necessary that such Tradition extend to Apostolic times (and John Paul the Great presents such evidence), but the reason why the Church lacks the authority to ordain women is not because Jesus did not do so, but because the Sacred Tradition of the Church holds that the Church lacks this authority.

The Church cannot reverse this teaching because it belongs to the infallible Deposit of Faith, as a part of Sacred Tradition. The reason the Church cannot reverse the decision has nothing to do with the fact that Jesus did not ordain women. Jesus did not do a lot of things that we do today (as you point out, Jesus did not have any gentile Apostles). But nobody would claim that an all-Jew Episcopal order is part of Sacred Tradition just because Jesus had no gentile Apostles and all of the first Bishops were Jews. It’s not (only) about what Jesus did, but all about what the Church has always done and believed.
 
John Paul 2 is right. their where women around Jesus as well back then yet he didn’t choose any of them. If any women was going to be a priest it would of been his mother Mary. Yet she wasn’t

This is God will and people pushing for this should relize it and stop it.
 
While I personally am niether for or against womens ordination, I think that Pope JPII statement that the church has no authority to change this based on what Jesus did is incorrect. If we look at matthew 16:19 "I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven.* Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Jesus put no conditions on the authority of the church. So while Jesus did not call women to be apostles he also didn’t say based on this passage it couldn’t happen.

Jesus also gave the command at the Last Supper to “Take and Eat” and “Take and Drink”. Yet for centuries the chalice was and still is in places withheld from the faithful.

Jesus said no dicorce except for sexual immorality. Yet the church has gotten around teh divorce issue with annulments.

Lastly, Jesus and the apostles led simple lives. Yet look at how the clergy have lived for centuries. Did Jesus or Peter envision Peter’s successors to live lavish lives.

The point is that we have to be careful when we start calling on tradition. tradition is very important but to say “that’s how we always did it” doesn’t mean things and and shouldn’t change.
 
F.A.O. jinc 1019,

Dear jinc 1019,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

In addition to what has been said, the sole basis for an exclusively male priesthood is that a priest must be a man because he represents a man, Jesus Christ, and by his ordination acts in persona Christi Capitis, in the very person of Christ, who is the *Bridegroom *of His Bride, the Church. Indeed, this is why the ordination of the Blessed Virgin would not make sense, for she represents the Church as Bride, not the Church’s Head and Groom. The ultimate reason for the ordination of men only to represent Christ as Head, therefore, lies in the fact that God the Son became a man and not a woman. Moreover, He became a man in order to be the Husband of the Church and at the same time the perfect image of the Fatherhood of God (see S. Jhn. 1: 18; 14: 8-10; Col. 1: 15; II Cor. 4: 4; Heb. 1: 1-3). A woman cannot be a Christian priest, because she cannot be a husband and father.

Sacred Scripture, dear friend, it is quite true, does provide further cogent reasons for the prohibition against ordaining women to the priesthood, but these are not the sole basis. Thus in I Timothy 2: 11-13, St. Paul says, “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression”. First, it is important to observe that St. Paul writes not out of mere male prejudice, for it is he who authors one of the most vigorous passages in the N.T. on the equality of men and women as children of God (see Gal. 3: 26-8). However, there was never any question of making women presbyters or official ministers of the Word. In First Timothy he insists that the equal standing of men and women in the Church does not remove the natural distinction between the sexes (something which a spurious egalitiarianism seeks to do), which was incontrovertably established by the prioritity given to man in creation (2: 13). St. Paul will not allow a woman to assume the place of leadership within the Church as an authoritative teacher of doctrine, since that would clearly set aside the order of nature and ipso facto put her in the position of exercising authority over the men in the congregation of the faithful. As the authoritative teacher of the people of God, a priest stands before them to rule and govern, but a woman could never occupy this office without violating the very Church doctrine that she would seek to teach to the men and women of her flock. Notwithstanding what the contemporary world, indoctrinated by decades of feminist ideology, may say to the contrary, a woman’s attempt to usurp the role of priest and teach men would be self-contradictory in the sight of God.

St Paul, dear friend, gives two reasons for this ban on women becoming priests. First, he makes his appeal to the fact that Adam was created before Eve (Gen 2: 21ff.), and in the view of I Cor. 11: 8f. (“For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for man”), this means that the origin and *raison d’ etre *of woman are to be found in man. As therefore God’s purpose in creating Eve was to provide a ‘help meet’ for Adam (Gen. 2: 20), it is not permissible for a woman to assume for herself the headship which belong soley to the man.

Second, St. Paul shows that Eve’s part in the Fall was owing to her being deceived (II Cor. 11: 3). The Devil deceived the woman; the woman did not deceive the man, but persuaded him (Gen. 3: 17), “thou hast hearkened to the voice of thy wife…”. In the preceding verse (I Tim. 2: 13), the Apostle teaches why a woman should not exercise authority, in verse 14, why she should not teach - more easily deceived, she more easily deceives, is the point which he is seeking to impart. This, for very obvious reasons, would render her highly unsuitable for the priesthood. You will observe that St. Paul places all the emphasis upon the word ‘deceive’ (mentioned twice), so as to drive home this particular lesson. He is not blaming Eve to excuse Adam, for he shows in Romans 5: 12ff. that the entire race was wounded by the transgression of the one man who was its Head.

The teaching of St. Paul in the Epistles, dear friend, is jolly cogent corroborative evidence as to why women are banned from Holy Orders and sadly, owing the impact of feminism, is not taken into account by modern Catholics as it once was. There is a tendency among some to dismiss it as being culturally bound, or, as I said earlier, put it down to St. Paul’s supposed prejudice against women. However, the Holy Spirit, speaking through St. Paul, says, “the women should keep silence in the churches…for it is shameful for a woman to speak in church…what I am writing to you is the command of the Lord”. “I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurp authority over the man”. Therefore, women are excluded from the teaching and governing mandate of Holy Orders by reason of “the command of the Lord”, nothing remotely to do with cultural conditioning, as even the argument of the I Timothy passage, itself firmly rooted in Sacred Scripture, plainly evinces.

God bless and trust that is of some help, dear friend.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
No, that’s not the reason. You can get a more complete picture if you read the entire text of Ordinato Sacerdoltalis (it’s not long) instead of an excerpt quoted in a tract.

The reason is because this teaching properly belongs to the Deposit of Faith because it is part of Sacred Tradition. Of course, it is necessary that such Tradition extend to Apostolic times (and John Paul the Great presents such evidence), but the reason why the Church lacks the authority to ordain women is not because Jesus did not do so, but because the Sacred Tradition of the Church holds that the Church lacks this authority.

The Church cannot reverse this teaching because it belongs to the infallible Deposit of Faith, as a part of Sacred Tradition. The reason the Church cannot reverse the decision has nothing to do with the fact that Jesus did not ordain women. Jesus did not do a lot of things that we do today (as you point out, Jesus did not have any gentile Apostles). But nobody would claim that an all-Jew Episcopal order is part of Sacred Tradition just because Jesus had no gentile Apostles and all of the first Bishops were Jews. It’s not (only) about what Jesus did, but all about what the Church has always done and believed.
This response largely answers my questions regarding the Catholic position on this issue. I do appreciate all of the additional comments however!
 
the reason why the Church lacks the authority to ordain women is not because Jesus did not do so, but because the Sacred Tradition of the Church holds that the Church lacks this authority.
Expanding on David’s post - It should be pointed out that the Tradition is formulated because it is true, only a male can be a priest. The theology is manifold, including because the very nature of a sacrament demands the outward sign indicative of the inward reality - in this case, the priest, standing in the person of Christ the bridegroom, necessarily must be male for the sacrament to be effected. As an analogy, the Church neither has the authority to “declare” males capable of gestating babies. It’s not possible. The Church can neither declare 4-sided figures to be triangles. It’s not possible. And the Church cannot “declare” females able to receive Holy Orders. It’s not possible. Ordinatio Sacerdotalis and other Church docs stress that this has nothing to do with the dignity of women, which is equal to man’s. It is simply a reality of the sacrament, a reality of truth, which the Magisterium is powerless to overturn.
 
F.A.O. jinc 1019,

“I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurp authority over the man”. Therefore, women are excluded from the teaching and governing mandate of Holy Orders by reason of “the command of the Lord”, nothing remotely to do with cultural conditioning, as even the argument of the I Timothy passage, itself firmly rooted in Sacred Scripture, plainly evinces.



Pax
Then explain why Catherine of Siena, Teresa of Avila, Therese of Lisieux and Hildegard of Bingen are Doctors of the Church.

What about Galatians 3:28?
 
Then explain why Catherine of Siena, Teresa of Avila, Therese of Lisieux and Hildegard of Bingen are Doctors of the Church.

What about Galatians 3:28?
Dear triumphguy,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Thankyou for your response.

True, they were Doctors of the Church but not ordained priests in Holy Orders.

If you re-read my post, dear friend, you will see that I referenced the Galatians passage and said that St. Paul taught the equality of men and women as children of God. Women enjoy an equal status with men as regards redemption, but union in the Gospel does not obliterate the natural distinction between the sexes, which was established by the priority given to man in creation (see I Tim. 2: 13). Thus whilst there is, as I have said, certainly equality in the sphere of grace, that does not mean a woman can usurp the teaching and governing mandate that belongs to priests in Holy Orders. She may indeed be a ‘Doctor’ but that is wholly different from a priest teaching both men and women in the context of divine worship in which women are excluded from governing and teaching.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
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