John Paul II: "I can't do anything. You must pray to this Priest"

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From Catholic News Agency:

Details of possible Pius XII miracle emerge

Rome, Italy, Jan 19, 2010 / 12:21 pm (CNA).- Some details of the case under investigation regarding a possible miracle attributed to Venerable Pope Pius XII have been made public. The story features not just one former Pontiff, but two.

On Tuesday morning, Vatican journalist Andrea Tornielli published an article in Il Giornale describing at length the situation which “mysteriously involves” John Paul II.

Tornielli reported that this case was brought to the attention of Benedict XVI shortly before he approved a measure on Dec. 19, 2009 venerating Pope Pius XII’s life of “heroic virtue,” whose cause had been on-hold for the previous two years.

In 2005, a teacher of 31 years of age was expecting her third child in the city of Castellammare di Stabia. She began to have strong pains, which after many tests and a biopsy, signaled the presence of Burkitt’s lymphoma. The condition is typified by swollen lymph nodes, often starting in the abdominal region, and the cancer can spread to bone marrow and spinal fluid. Not only was her health in danger, but that of her unborn child was also threatened.

**The woman’s husband first prayed for the intercession Pope John Paul II, who was then only recently buried in the crypt of St. Peter’s. It wasn’t long before the Holy Father appeared to the woman’s husband in a dream. The spouse described to Tornielli what he saw that night, “He had a serious face. He said to me, ‘I can’t do anything, you must pray to this other priest…’ He showed me the image of a thin, tall, lean priest. I didn’t recognize him; I didn’t know who he might be.” **

Several days passed before he, “by chance,” came across a picture of Pope Pius XII in a magazine and recognized him as the man John Paul II had shown him in the dream.

The man wasted no time in bombarding Pius XII with prayers for his wife’s healing and following her very first treatments she was declared free of the cancer, the tumor had disappeared. In fact, she was cured so quickly that her doctors pondered the notion that they may have originally misdiagnosed the pathology.

The tests and charts were reconsulted and the initial diagnosis was confirmed.

In the absence of the tumor, she had her baby and returned to work. After some time had gone by, she decided to contact the Vatican regarding her experience.

A local news source, the Sorrento & Dintorni, ran an article on Sunday offering a basic story of the possible miracle and the diocesan response to it. According to their report, a Tribunal has been organized by Archbishop Felice Cece of Sorrento-Castellammare to determine the nature of the occurrence and whether it will move on to the Vatican.

According to Tornielli, if they decide positively, the case will be sent on to Congregation for the Causes of Saints for investigation by a team of doctors to declare whether the event was explicable by natural means. If there is no explanation found for the healing, theologians from the Congregation will debate the issue. Only with their “go-ahead” can a dossier subsequently reach the hands of Pope Benedict XVI for official recognition.

Cardinal Jose Saraiva Martins, Prefect Emeritus of the Congregation for the Causes of Saints, told CNA on Monday that there is no telling how much time the entire process might take.

He also mentioned that if a case arrives to the Congregation for the Causes of Saints it is examined in chronological order based on the date of arrival and there are thousands of cases pending review.

However, he added, “exceptions might be made for Popes, etc.”

There was no mention in Tornielli’s report of where the lymphoma had manifested itself in the woman’s body. According to the National Institute of Health, Burkitt’s lymphoma is treatable and more than half of those diagnosed with the cancer are cured with intensive chemotherapy.
 
Hmmm, I wonder how much credence we should give to somebody’s dream? If this turns out to be a miracle, then maybe we’ll have to look seriously at it. Maybe it was just in God’s plan that Pope Pius should recieve credit for a miracle to counter the negative press he’s gotten for the last 50 years. Even if the miracle did turn out to be genuine, I don’t think we could use the dream to conclude anything about the status of John Paul II. Anyways, didn’t he already have some miracles attributed to him, like that person who was shot in the head and survived?
 
We can’t conclude a thing regarding Pope JP II’s ‘status’ simply because he was not ‘able’ or ‘allowed’ to intercede on a specific instance. We don’t understand how these things work, maybe there are ‘specialties’ in Heaven. We just don’t know…but NO ONE is ‘omni-potent’ other than God…simply being in Heaven should NOT make ANYONE ‘omni-potent’!

It is very obvious to all of us that if Pope JP II does NOT make it to Heaven, Heaven will be quite empty!

On the other hand, all of us -as the Community of the Saints- can and should intercede for each other. By ‘referring’ the husband to another saint, Pope JP II cooperated in the miracle, no? After all, he had to show the man an image of the saint, which later was ‘by chance’ seen again with a name.

Dreams have always had value since biblical times…read the OT, it’s FULL of dreams and visions. Joseph in the OT interpreted dreams to save a nation and his family. In the NT, even Joseph’s dream about the angel telling him to accept pregnant Mary, and then to take her and the child away to Egypt. Nothing wrong with believing in dreams, especially when accompanied with powerful healings!

In the end, it was GOD’s miracle…NOT any particular saint’s … it’s simply that God lets us know whom He wants us to emulate by manifesting His power through individuals.

Pax Christi.
 
+Lovely sharing . . . thanks so much for posting this Ultima Ratio . . .

**:harp:
  • To God Be The Glory +**
    . . . all for Jesus+​
 
Hmmm, I wonder how much credence we should give to somebody’s dream? If this turns out to be a miracle, then maybe we’ll have to look seriously at it.
I thought the same thing. If it was just a person claiming to have a dream, I wouldn’t give it much thought. But this was different. The person had a dream, acted based on what he was told in the dream, and received a miracle as a result. If the miracle happened, it lends much credibility to the dream.
 
BTW, I just wanted to point out that I find curious that a Pope would refer to another Pope as ‘a priest’ instead…interesting, no? It seems that there is a ‘leap’ to become a priest, and then it is only a matter of ‘degree’ after that all the way to Pope!
 
I interpret it that God had granted certain miracles at Pope John Paul’s request, but told him that this one was reserved because He wanted to honor Pope Pius.
 
If it’s true and we take it at face value, we can assume that both the old pontiffs are in heaven and thus saints.
 
If it’s true and we take it at face value, we can assume that both the old pontiffs are in heaven and thus saints.
I’m not sure how you concluded that. It sure would seem strange for a saint, who sees God face to face, to respond to a prayer request by saying “I can’t do anything”. Praying for another person is “something”, and if a person is in heaven they are able to do that. In fact, even those in purgatory can pray.
 
I’m not sure how you concluded that. It sure would seem strange for a saint, who sees God face to face, to respond to a prayer request by saying “I can’t do anything”. Praying for another person is “something”, and if a person is in heaven they are able to do that. In fact, even those in purgatory can pray.
But how could someone who is not in heaven take part in the miracle? That is, after all, what this woman’s dream has him doing; he appeared in a dream, directed her to a person that she did not recognize, whom she later saw in a picture as Pius XII.
 
But how could someone who is not in heaven take part in the miracle? That is, after all, what this woman’s dream has him doing; he appeared in a dream, directed her to a person that she did not recognize, whom she later saw in a picture as Pius XII.
God can certainly have a person who is not in heaven appear to a person on earth who is asking for their help. When you read the stories of the saints, there are many accounts of people who are not in heaven appearing to people on earth.

Regarding John Paul II “taking part in the miracle”: He was certainly involved, but only in a passive, rather than actice, way. He told her he could not help her, and directed her to one who could, *and did. * This would seem to be an act of mercy from God, since the person was wasting their time praying to one who was unable to help. Therefore, God, in His mercy, sent the person they were praying to in order to inform them they he was unable to do anything, and then he directed them to the one who could help. To me, this shows the mercy of God.
 
+There appears to be a very real movement of the **Holy Spirit throughout the Church at this time . . . which appears to be bringing into clarity the truths of Pope Pius XII’s extraordinary holy life . . . and is propelling the forwarding of the cause of Pope Pius XII to its fruition along the pathway within Holy Mother Church to his becoming a full fledged canonized Roman Catholic Saint . . . perhaps Pope John Paul the Great’s extraordinary recognition and encouragement of pray:gopray2:ers to Pope Pius XII . . . and the resultant miraculous happening . . . is a confirming sign from heaven re this canonization cause . . . and confirmation that this canonization is very much God’s **Perfect and Holy Will for Holy Mother Church at this time . . . for there is little doubt in any devout Catholic’s mind that our wonderful Pope John Paul the Great is worthy of complete trust and perfect immediate obedience per a request made of us . . .

*God bless . . . *
**:harp:
  • To God Be The Glory +**
    . . . all for Jesus+
    . . . Thy will be done on earth
    as it is in heaven+
    :signofcross:
 
I thought the same thing. If it was just a person claiming to have a dream, I wouldn’t give it much thought. But this was different. The person had a dream, acted based on what he was told in the dream, and received a miracle as a result. If the miracle happened, it lends much credibility to the dream.
Its not a miracle unless the Church determines it is a miracle. We should not be trying to preempt what the Church may or may not decide.
 
I disagree to some extent. To use a well-known example, many people did not believe St. Bernadette when she spoke at first about her visions of His Mother. Even if no one had ended up believing it, would not it have still been miraculous? If the Church had not decided that the spring that she dug upon Her advice had miraculous healing powers, it certainly still would be a spring wih supernatural implications.
Its not a miracle unless the Church determines it is a miracle. We should not be trying to preempt what the Church may or may not decide.
 
Its not a miracle unless the Church determines it is a miracle. We should not be trying to preempt what the Church may or may not decide.
I understand what you are trying to say, but the way you worded it is not correct. I miracle does not become a miracle when the Church certifies it as such. A true miracle is a true miracle irrespective of whether or not it is ever certified by the Church.

In the case of canonizations, the Church does investigate alleged miracles to determine if it was a true miracle, or something that could have had a natural (or preturnatural) cause. But the Church recognizing something as a miracle does not make the miracle; it only confirms it.
 
Not to “throw” anyone off-topic, but I am still perplexed by the visions of St. Joan of Arc. Would saints(St. Margaret, for one, existed beyond question) have directed to her death, especially considering that it was for “political” reasons? Joan was, indeed, a holy young lady, but if her visions were true, could it have been that they were not sent by God?
 
Thank you . That is basically what I was just attempting to say.
I understand what you are trying to say, but the way you worded it is not correct. I miracle does not become a miracle when the Church certifies it as such. A true miracle is a true miracle irrespective of whether or not it is ever certified by the Church.

In the case of canonizations, the Church does investigate alleged miracles to determine if it was a true miracle, or something that could have had a natural (or preturnatural) cause. But the Church recognizing something as a miracle does not make the miracle; it only confirms it.
 
What I would find most interesting would be, if confirmed, if this would change any minds among traditionalists who admire Pius XII, but dislike John Paul II.
 
Not to “throw” anyone off-topic, but I am still perplexed by the visions of St. Joan of Arc. Would saints(St. Margaret, for one, existed beyond question) have directed to her death, especially considering that it was for “political” reasons? Joan was, indeed, a holy young lady, but if her visions were true, could it have been that they were not sent by God?
As Catholics we accept the Church’s confirmation that the **Blessed St. Joan :knight2: of Arc’s **visions . . . which directed her to follow in the footsteps of her . . . +Crucified Lord . . . Jesus . . . **the Blessed Christ **. . . were investigated and confirmed to be of God by the Holy See, and . . . actually . . . the purpose for her life was not so much “political” but rather “salvivic” . . . involving the salvation of a whole country of people . . . France . . . as part of a world of people of which that country was an integral part . . . Here we see God’s Holy Hand specifically and clearly revealing itself as intervening in the history of mankind upon the earth for all mankind’s good . . . and gaining the complete victory . . . St. Joan was a true martyr of the Church . . . who gave her life for Christ for the salvation of her people . . . even as our Lord Jesus gave His life for the salvation of all mankind on His Holy Cross . . .

The proof that her 1) visions were sent from God was 2) the specific miraculous nature of the victories God achieved 3) through her humble holy obedience to the visions . . . and Holy Mother Church has recognized and investigated this and has honored her as God’s chosen servant by making her a canonized Saint according to the stringent criteria set up by the Roman Catholic Church necessary for Sainthood . . . even as the canonization proof for Pope Pius XII will be ascertained by the Holy See by investigating the **1) reported vision of Pope John Paul the Great’s appearance 2) ** the humble obedience of the person to whom the vision was given, and 3) the “miracle” mentioned in the original post . . . the same pattern is in play involving the Holy See . . .

God bless . . .
. . . all for Jesus+​
 
I’m not sure how you concluded that. It sure would seem strange for a saint, who sees God face to face, to respond to a prayer request by saying “I can’t do anything”. Praying for another person is “something”, and if a person is in heaven they are able to do that. In fact, even those in purgatory can pray.
Useful points to consider:
  1. In a dream the message must be to the point & brief…no dissertations of particulars would work - just get the important element across to heal that person QUICK!
  2. Even in Heaven, a saint is just a saint, ONLY GOD is GOD, and ANY miracle [or anything else for that matter] MUST conform to HIS WILL…he may not have been granted permission, but told who was
  3. The message does not say that Pope JP II did not pray, just that he could not grant the miracle sought for, and which was asked of him…he did offer the solution
  4. The wonderful thing about the solution is that it takes away from our dependency on a SINGLE individual for help, and puts it back onto the Communion of the Saints…where many cooperate for solutions under the WILL of GOD
  5. It does seem that JP II would be pointing to the sainthood of Pius XII; just as much as the referral to Pius XII would point to the sainthood of JP II… VERY interesting indeed! :hmmm: Almost a ‘curve-ball’ from God in fact!
  6. Someone received healing, :yup: THANKS be to GOD! :yup:
 
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