John Paul II kissed the Quran?

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myfavoritmartin said:
It does not say to win the blasphemers i became a blasphemer or to win the idolators i became an idolater or to win the satan worshippers i worshipped satan…

This is not a good comparison, at all. Quran states…“They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them,” Quran 5:73, Yusuf Ali

They say that about our LORD and here you have the face of Christianity in the world kissing their holy book it is a sign that he recognised their faith as a true faith, yet they boldly deny Jesus is the Christ.
Ridiculous is anyone who tries to rationalise this action.
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MFM-

I realize after many exchanges with you that no pope is likely to get the benefit of the doubt from you. At the same time, I can understand your perspective. Would I have kissed the Koran? No. But then, I’m not as loving as JPII.

Let me leave you with this: When Muslims think of Christians, what do they typically recall? The Crusades.

Do you think the Holy Father may have tried to heal that wound just a bit by his action? Do you think that more than a few Muslims had to rethink their ideas about Christians in light of what he did?

Maybe?🤷
 
mlchance said:
They weren’t led so much as they jumped to conclusions.

– Mark L. Chance.
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As is so often the case, Mark speaks my mind.👍👍
I, for one, wasn’t the least scandalized. I just thought it was one of those personal JP2 moments.
Now,I, personally, wouldn’t kiss the Kuran. But then, though I do, as I say,:kiss4you: kiss my cat, I wouldn’t kiss the ground every time I reached ground level, either.🤷
And,😉 JP2, most probably wouldn’t kiss my cat,:hmmm: now that I think about it…
 
myfavoritmartin said:
It does not say to win the blasphemers i became a blasphemer or to win the idolators i became an idolater or to win the satan worshippers i worshipped satan…

This is not a good comparison, at all. Quran states…“They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them,” Quran 5:73, Yusuf Ali

They say that about our LORD and here you have the face of Christianity in the world kissing their holy book it is a sign that he recognised their faith as a true faith, yet they boldly deny Jesus is the Christ.
Ridiculous is anyone who tries to rationalise this action.
Click to expand...
:clapping: 👍
 
Rocko said:
…
  1. “John Paul II kissed the Quaran!” Really this does strike me as odd. I can’t reason why he would do that. Did he really do that? …
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It could also be said that the Pope was following the teachings of St Paul, who says to greet each other with a holy kiss;
“Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ send you their greetings.” Ro. 16:16
“All the brothers here send greetings. Greet one another with a holy kiss.” 1 Co. 16:20
“Greet one another with a holy kiss. All of God’s people send you their greetings.” 2 Co. 13:12
“Greet all believers with a holy kiss.” 1 Th. 5:26

St Peter has said: “Greet one another with the kiss of Christian love. May peace be with all of you who belong to Christ” (1 P 5:14).

Pope John Paul II never explained why he kissed the Qur’an… but he has shown his affection to muslims saying “Christians and Muslims, we have many things in common as believers and as human beings… We believe in the same God, the one and only God, the living God…”
 
Frankly, if JPII’s worst failing is that he went a little overboard with a gesture of respect to a non-Christian religion, we should consider ourselves lucky. There have been valid popes in history that have had mistresses, illegitimate children, have unjustly ordered people’s deaths, bought and sold cardinal-ships, etc. (Oddly enough, you rarely have RadTrads make a peep about those Popes, but shriek to high heaven because JPII committed a social faux pas.)

All Catholics know that Popes aren’t impeccable. However, Christian charity demands that we give JPII the benefit of the doubt.
 
wanner47 said:
Oddly enough, you rarely have RadTrads make a peep about those Popes, but shriek to high heaven because JPII committed a social faux pas.)
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I couldn’t agree with you more. I really need to brush up on my Church history to learn more about these popes you speak of. Those would be great talking points.

I love your term “RadTrads” That’s great!
 
mlchance said:
They weren’t led so much as they jumped to conclusions.

– Mark L. Chance.
Click to expand...
Zooey said:
As is so often the case, Mark speaks my mind.👍👍
I, for one, wasn’t the least scandalized. I just thought it was one of those personal JP2 moments.
Now,I, personally, wouldn’t kiss the Kuran. But then, though I do, as I say,:kiss4you: kiss my cat, I wouldn’t kiss the ground every time I reached ground level, either.🤷
And,😉 JP2, most probably wouldn’t kiss my cat,:hmmm: now that I think about it…
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Rocko said:
Solid point!
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I really don’t even consider it any kind of faux pas, but IMO it certainly does give us insight into the darkness of some people’s hearts who call themselves Christian.

As for those who refer to Muslims and others as blasphemers…

You’re really fortunate that we Catholics don’t hold that same rotten attitude because then we wouldn’t even talk to people like you.

I’d be grateful to God to ever reach a point where my life was a 10th the witness for Christ that John Paul the Great’s was. 👍

Get George Weigel’s book “Witness To Hope” and get to really know John Paul II and the see what you come away with.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
 
Rocko said:
I couldn’t agree with you more. I really need to brush up on my Church history to learn more about these popes you speak of. Those would be great talking points.

I love your term “RadTrads” That’s great!
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No…actually it’s not. It’s forbidden by the Forum Rules and Banned Topics.:manvspc:
 
Perhaps he did it because he recognized what C.S. Lewis and G.K. Chesterton recognized which is that many of the world religions are trying to look at Christ through a dusty glass. So he might have kissed it because - though dusty and full of smudges, it is still a glass that alludes to Christ.

I dont know… that is my best gues. It is difficult to understand in light of the fact that the Koran talks about the blasphemy of the trinity. However, the kiss might have happened despite this because at the heart of Koran is to Love God with all your heart. Maybe I am wrong in this.

And I am by no means saying… “We all believe in God so there is no real big diffrence between these two religions.” I do not believe that by no means. Just trying to give me two cents.

At the end of day, all I know is that when I first heard about this my heart was moved. Not moved the way liberal s would like us to be moved by a holding hands - cumbaya kind of way. But moved outside of myself. I couldn’t help but think of Jesus washing his disciples dirty, blistered, sinner feet.
 
Church_Militant said:
I really don’t even consider it any kind of faux pas, but IMO it certainly does give us insight into the darkness of some people’s hearts who call themselves Christian.
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Let me add:

Perhaps we all need to consider that just maybe John Paul II was wiser than we are along with the charism that his office endows. I know it is America as apple pie to always think we are smarter than everyone else, but it is often not true. In absence of proof of heresy, everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt especially our Holy Father, or does no one believe in obeying the Fourth Commandment any more?
 
Muslims put something on their hands that has a fragrance. My guess is he smelled it and was sniffing the Koran to see if it was the book. 😉
 
While I have no idea what John Paul was thinking when he kissed that hateful book, I think you need to look at it if you want to understand what a poor idea it was. The koran is not a “holy book” in any way. It is a screeching murder, incest, pedophilia embracing rant by a man who never had more than 50 followers in his lifetime, and for a number of very good reasons. Whatever he needed to make “holy” for his own comfort and gathering of wealth was included in the thing. Lying (“taqqyia”) is OK. So is murder. So is taking your daughter in law away from her husband, so is marrying a child. The list goes on and on.
Please don’t believe or disbelieve me-go check it out for yourself. The meticulously notated (and FREE!) study of the koran is available on the web. Google Prophet of Doom.
God bless you all, but He expects you to call evil what it is. Especially in these times!
 
Has anyone heard about the Quran referencing the Bible? I heard at a retreat that the Quran says to reference the Bible for further questions or something like that.

And for the record, exactly we do not blashpheme to be one with the blasphemers. I do not enter temples even though my friends do simply because I do not want to show any support for their religion-- Hinduism. I’m just tolerant when they speak but I barely even nod or show any sort of approval.

Has anyone read the Quran? I know Muslims say Jesus is a prophet and I’ve heard that they believe that Jesus was replaced by a stunt double when he was crucified. But if someone who knows (I have not read the Quran) what is actually said there then maybe we can come to a different conclusion for this discussion? Cuz I suppose the Pope either recognized the Quran to contain truth or his action was merely a gracious formality…
 
mrsoc said:
While I have no idea what John Paul was thinking when he kissed that hateful book, I think you need to look at it if you want to understand what a poor idea it was. The koran is not a “holy book” in any way. It is a screeching murder, incest, pedophilia embracing rant by a man who never had more than 50 followers in his lifetime, and for a number of very good reasons. Whatever he needed to make “holy” for his own comfort and gathering of wealth was included in the thing. Lying (“taqqyia”) is OK. So is murder. So is taking your daughter in law away from her husband, so is marrying a child. The list goes on and on.
Please don’t believe or disbelieve me-go check it out for yourself. The meticulously notated (and FREE!) study of the koran is available on the web. Google Prophet of Doom.
God bless you all, but He expects you to call evil what it is. Especially in these times!
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Atheists say the same thing about the Bible, you know.

I don’t think anyone here would say the Koran is a holy book or one that Cheistians should use. However, it does contain SOME truth; for example, it says Jesus was born of a virgin.

Perhaps JPII kissed it in respect for the little truth it does contain. Perhaps he kissed it because it was a gift and he thought that was the proper and polite response. Regardless, it’s really not as big of a deal as people make it out to be.
 
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