John the Baptist and Heaven

[stherese76]

I was speaking with a family the other day, and he mentioned to me that St. John the Baptist was born without Original Sin. I responded and said, absolutely not! However, he proceeded to show me the Gospel passage that talks about the Visitation, and how the baby within Elizabeth “lept” because she was filled with the Holy Spirit. He interpreted that since she was filled with the Holy Spirit, that John the Baptist was at that moment cleansed of Original Sin, and therefore, born without Original Sin. As I continued to argue that this was not true, he kept saying that it is not an official Church teaching, but that the Church “tilts” in this direction. Could you please help to clarify this for me?

Also, in this same conversation, he went on to tell me that Mary and Jesus are the only 2 bodies in Heaven… I see that! But he also said that the souls in Heaven are not with Jesus and Mary - that they are somehow in Heaven, but in a different place. Again, something I’ve never heard before. Can you please help to clarify this as well?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Also, in this same conversation, he went on to tell me that Mary and Jesus are the only 2 bodies in Heaven… I see that! But he also said that the souls in Heaven are not with Jesus and Mary - that they are somehow in Heaven, but in a different place. Again, something I’ve never heard before. Can you please help to clarify this as well?

I don’t know anything about the first part, but on this, I would have to say it’s complete nonsense. The reason we spend our lives trying to good is so taht we can be in Heaven with them

Further, since the Trinity is a singular entity, to say that Jesus is not with the people in Heaven would be to say that God is not with the people in Heaven, which is impossible. Heaven is eternity with God, so it can’t be Heaven without God.

 

[Andrew1980]

John the Baptist was conceived with Original Sin (unlike Mary); I have read else where that he was santified at the Visititation. The Holy Spirit removed the effect of original sin prior to birth similar to our baptism.

Jesus is in heaven with Mary and his Father and the Holy Spirit as well as with every other Saint that has passed through this earth and through the purifying flames of purgatory (if necessary).

 

[Michael_Francis]

Moved to Sacred Scripture.

Be advised that the only way to ask such a question of the staff is to post it in the Ask an Apologist forum.

 

[jcrichton]

I was speaking with a family the other day, and he mentioned to me that St. John the Baptist was born without Original Sin. I responded and said, absolutely not! However, he proceeded to show me the Gospel passage that talks about the Visitation, and how the baby within Elizabeth “lept” because she was filled with the Holy Spirit. He interpreted that since she was filled with the Holy Spirit, that John the Baptist was at that moment cleansed of Original Sin, and therefore, born without Original Sin. As I continued to argue that this was not true, he kept saying that it is not an official Church teaching, but that the Church “tilts” in this direction. Could you please help to clarify this for me?

…it is quite the most probable conclusion since it was required that he (John the Baptist) be separated for God and that he did not even taste any product of the vine… from his mother’s womb he was filled with the Holy Spirit and it was this revelation (Holy Spirit’s) that allowed the baby to understand that he was in the presence of the Incarnate Word–Elizabeth received, through some sort of secondary revelation, the knowledge that her Lord was in her presence… and, finally, it was John’s obligation to Preach and Baptize… he himself did not receive this “new” Baptism and he understood that Christ, also, did not need to partake of it!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[thistle]

I was speaking with a family the other day, and he mentioned to me that St. John the Baptist was born without Original Sin. I responded and said, absolutely not! However, he proceeded to show me the Gospel passage that talks about the Visitation, and how the baby within Elizabeth “lept” because she was filled with the Holy Spirit. He interpreted that since she was filled with the Holy Spirit, that John the Baptist was at that moment cleansed of Original Sin, and therefore, born without Original Sin. As I continued to argue that this was not true, he kept saying that it is not an official Church teaching, but that the Church “tilts” in this direction. Could you please help to clarify this for me?

Also, in this same conversation, he went on to tell me that Mary and Jesus are the only 2 bodies in Heaven… I see that! But he also said that the souls in Heaven are not with Jesus and Mary - that they are somehow in Heaven, but in a different place. Again, something I’ve never heard before. Can you please help to clarify this as well?

I thought as you did before but the errors of my ways were pointed out to me.
He was conceived in original sin but born free from original sin.
The Church teaches that anyone filled with the Holy Spirit is without sin and John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit while in his mother’s womb and was born free from original sin.
In short it is a Church teaching.

 

[R_C]

He was conceived in original sin but born free from original sin.
…]
In short it is a Church teaching.

Then was accomplished the prophetic utterance of the angel that the child should “be filled with the Holy Ghost even from his mother’s womb”. Now as the presence of any sin whatever is incompatible with the indwelling of the Holy Ghost in the soul, it follows that at this moment John was cleansed from the stain of original sin.
(source: Catholic Encyclopedia)

 

[R_C]

Also, in this same conversation, he went on to tell me that Mary and Jesus are the only 2 bodies in Heaven

It is a possibility that other special friends of the Lord are in heaven in body as well as in soul. The Scriptures mention something that may hint to this, about Enoch and Elijah. Also the apostle recounts that the archangel St. Michael argued with the adversary over the body of Moses - who spoke to the Lord in the Transfiguration with Elijah. Finally, quite a few theologians (including, among others, S. Bernardino of Siena, St. Francis of Sales, St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori, and St. Padre Pio) believed in the possibility that St. Joseph may be in heaven in body and soul.

However we only know with absolute certainty that our Lord is in Heaven in body and soul and that the Blessed Virgin was assumed body and soul into Heaven.

he also said that the souls in Heaven are not with Jesus and Mary - that they are somehow in Heaven, but in a different place.

I don’t think there’s a concept of “distance” in the state which we call “heaven”. It is more of a perfect awareness of God’s glorious presence. St. Therese of Lisieux was once very concerned about this, and her sister Pauline - who would later become Mother Agnes of Jesus, Prioress of the Lisieux Carmel, while St. Therese was still alive - gave her a wonderful example that gave her peace - and us, as well. This is how the little flower describes it:

I told you once how it puzzled me that God did not give everyone the same amount of glory in Heaven, and I feared they could not all be happy. You sent me off to fetch one of Father’s big glasses and made me put my little thimble by the side of it; then you filled them both up with water and asked me which I thought was the fuller. I had to admit that one was just as full as the other because neither of them would hold any more. That was the way you helped me to grasp how it was that in Heaven the least have no cause to envy the greatest.

I do not think that the blessed souls in heaven will have to suffer any further separation from their divine Bridegroom and from their heavenly Mother…that sounds more like the torments of Purgatory…!